Digging dos and donts

[utah mason]

Digging do's and don'ts

Being a newbie, I want to make sure I'm not making any mistakes that get me in trouble with Johnny law.
I see big holes in banks and high up out of river or stream. I have been keeping my digging at water line, or below except last time, material I was digging was out of water but well below high water mark. How much do the rules change from blm, forest service, to private? I've been pushing big rocks back in hole and backfilling. A few different guys on YouTube said too for different reasons, trip hazard's for both people and wildlife. fish get trapped and its the law in some places. Thanks for helping me avoid a ticket and lecture.

 

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[OwenT]

And it is

From the Gold and Fish pamphlet, "You must fill all excavation sites and level all tailing piles prior to moving to another excavation site or abandoning
an excavation site. If you move boulders, you must return them, as best as you can, to their approximate,
original location."

 

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[Honest Samuel]

No mines in Connecticut.

 

[arizau]

No mines in Connecticut.

You could probably wad up a half inch of soil the area of Conn. and fit it into the open pit of the mine I worked for here in AZ. Well maybe not really but it would make a healthy dent. You do have nearby states with gold though. Happy hunting.

 

[Clay Diggins]

Here in WA there is.

Depends on what you mean by "holes".

According to Washington State law you aren't even a mine and subject to surface reclamation until:

RCW 78.44.031
(17)(a) "Surface mine" means any area or areas in close proximity to each other, as determined by the department, where extraction of minerals results in:

(i) More than three acres of disturbed area;

(ii) Surface mined slopes greater than thirty feet high and steeper than 1.0 foot horizontal to 1.0 foot vertical; or

(iii) More than one acre of disturbed area within an eight acre area, when the disturbed area results from mineral prospecting or exploration activities.

So less than a 3 acre 30 foot deep hole if you are "mining" and a 1 acre undefined depth hole when you are "prospecting or exploring" before you are subject to regulation.

Seems like most folks here aren't talking about those size holes.

If prospectors were required to "fill all holes" there would be no lode mines possible.

Perhaps your information on "holes" came from State regulation of recreation or parks?

If the land isn't grazed by livestock or visited frequently visited by children or idiots I'm cool with holes.

If the land has cattle on it or is a favorite trail for packs of city folk it's just good common sense to fence and sign your workings to avoid injuring dumb animals and people. Anything more is personal choice.

Heavy Pans

 

[bobw53]

No mines in Connecticut.

ACTIVE mines. There were mines there. There is still gold there.

 

[Goldwasher]

From the Gold and Fish pamphlet, "You must fill all excavation sites and level all tailing piles prior to moving to another excavation site or abandoning
an excavation site. If you move boulders, you must return them, as best as you can, to their approximate,
original location."

Notice in my above post I basically said it sucks to fill a hole just when you start to find color...or to fill them later with tailings .......I didn't really say screw that leave holes......what your talking about is reclamation...and for responsible miners it's a given... there is no law that says when your going to leave a hole and come back to it....it needs to be filled...before you can leave it unattended

 

[Clay Diggins]

No mines in Connecticut.

None here in Arizona either.

Are you just trying to keep the out of towners from taking your minerals?

I see at least 33 active quarry and pit mines and at least 5 past gold producers (including Governors Winthrops mine).

It's still out there.

Heavy Pans

 

[Clay Diggins]

Mining is regulated in Washington State by the Department of Natural Resources (DNR). DNR is delegated with the "RCW 78.44.050 Exclusive authority to regulate surface mine reclamation"

The Washington State Department of Fish and Wildlife (DFW) regulates hunting and fishing. Nothing whatsoever in their listed Powers and Duties about regulating mining. The fish and gold pamphlet is intended for recreational prospectors.

If you are prospecting to find valuable minerals on lands open to location you are not recreating - you are Surface Mining. Which doesn't require any filling of holes until you reach the limits stated above.

If you can show laws that state otherwise please share with us. A free pamphlet made up by a recreational agency is not a law.

We live in republics ruled by laws - not by management agency pamphlets.

Heavy Pans

 

[chlsbrns]

Using a bore hold dredge we suck a big hole at the first upstream location. We leave the suction pipe in the hole and fill the hole with rocks in such a way as to create a vortex. The rest of the dredging downstream from the first hole is filled with the same material that comes out of the hole. The material is sucked from the bottom and deposited on top! We go back yearly, connect to the suction pipe and clean out the first hole.

 

[OwenT]

Clay, I was referring to the holes that one guy can dig with hand tools.

Notice in my above post I basically said it sucks to fill a hole just when you start to find color...or to fill them later with tailings .......I didn't really say screw that leave holes......what your talking about is reclamation...and for responsible miners it's a given... there is no law that says when your going to leave a hole and come back to it....it needs to be filled...before you can leave it unattended

I totally agree. I'm all for leaving a hole that's got gold and I'll be back to it soon. But as the Gold and Fish book says, when it's abandoned you should fill it in, that's just common sense/courtesy.

 

[Clay Diggins]

It appears that in Utah Mining that isn't considered an "operation" under the reclamation laws is exempt from permits or site regulation/reclamation.

Title 40 Chapter 8 Section 4 (14)
(a) "Mining operation" means activities conducted on the surface of the land for the exploration for, development of, or extraction of a mineral deposit, including, but not limited to, surface mining and the surface effects of underground and in situ mining, on-site transportation, concentrating, milling, evaporation, and other primary processing.
(b) "Mining operation" does not include:
(i) the extraction of sand, gravel, and rock aggregate;
(ii) the extraction of oil and gas as defined in Title 40, Chapter 6, Board and Division of Oil, Gas, and Mining;
(iii) the extraction of geothermal steam;
(iv) smelting or refining operations;
(v) off-site operations and transportation;
(vi) reconnaissance activities; or
(vii) activities which will not cause significant surface resource disturbance or involve the use of mechanized earth-moving equipment, such as bulldozers or backhoes.

Additionally if you intend to cause a significant surface disturbance with your mining you may need to send an notice to the reclamation board outlining your intentions but as long as you qualify as a "small miner" you don't need approval for the notice.

40-8-4 (27) "Small mining operations" means mining operations that disturb or will disturb 10 or less surface acres at any given time in an unincorporated area of a county or five or less surface acres at any given time in an incorporated area of a county.

There may be more but that's what I found from the State Statutes. I hope others can contribute facts to help the original poster out.

Heavy Pans

 

[DizzyDigger]

Clay, don't know if it would make a difference, but here in
Washington the Fish and Game officers also enforce all
of the other laws of the state (traffic, narcotics, etc.). They
are sworn Police rather than just being Game Wardens.

 

[chlsbrns]

. The Washington State Department of Fish and Wildlife (DFW) regulates hunting and fishing. Nothing whatsoever in their listed Powers and Duties about regulating mining.

If you can show laws that state otherwise please share with us. A free pamphlet made up by a recreational agency is not a law.

http://wdfw.wa.gov/publications/00290/wdfw00290.pdf

 

[chlsbrns]

Since 1980, the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) has regulated most freshwater mineral prospecting and placer mining activities through the Gold and Fish pamphlet.

No application or fees are required, although you must follow the rules outlined in the pamphlet and in some cases carry it with you in the field.

Mineral Prospecting & Placer Mining Regulations and Permits (Gold and Fish Pamphlet) | Washington Department of Fish & Wildlife

 

[Clay Diggins]

I find it interesting that the DFW has this description of the gold and fish pamphlet use on their site

The pamphlet, a type of Hydraulic Project Approval (HPA), serves as your permit for the freshwater and ocean beach mineral prospecting and mining activities described in it.

And here is the actual law.

RCW 77.55.091
Small scale prospecting and mining — Rules.

(1) Small scale prospecting and mining shall not require a permit under this chapter if the prospecting is conducted in accordance with rules established by the department.

I'm thinking Fish and Wildlife makes stuff up. Certainly their description of their free pamphlet isn't in compliance with the actual laws that regulate their agency actions.

But then again some folks would line up to be shot if they got a free pamphlet at the mall that said there was a rule that they must be shot to be in compliance.

I can educate and inform but I can't fix gullible.

Heavy Pans

 

[chlsbrns]

I find it interesting that the DFW has this description of the gold and fish pamphlet use on their site



And here is the actual law.



I'm thinking Fish and Wildlife makes stuff up. Certainly their description of their free pamphlet isn't in compliance with the actual laws that regulate their agency actions.

But then again some folks would line up to be shot if they got a free pamphlet at the mall that said there was a rule that they must be shot to be in compliance.

I can educate and inform but I can't fix gullible.

Heavy Pans

Why did you not post the whole section? In addition HPA's are a separate section.

RCW 77.55.091
Small scale prospecting and mining -- Rules.
(1) Small scale prospecting and mining shall not require a permit under this chapter if the prospecting is conducted in accordance with rules established by the department.

(2) By December 31, 1998, the department shall adopt rules applicable to small scale prospecting and mining activities subject to this section. The department shall develop the rules in cooperation with the recreational mining community and other interested parties.

(3) Within two months of adoption of the rules, the department shall distribute an updated gold and fish pamphlet that describes methods of mineral prospecting that are consistent with the department's rule. The pamphlet shall be written to clearly indicate the prospecting methods that require a permit under this chapter and the prospecting methods that require compliance with the pamphlet. To the extent possible, the department shall use the provisions of the gold and fish pamphlet to minimize the number of specific provisions of a written permit issued under this chapter.

Alternative types of HPAs
If you want to conduct mineral prospecting or mining activities at different times or locations, or with different equipment than allowed in this pamphlet, you must apply for a separate, written HPA. The same is true for mineral prospecting or mining activities in marine waters.

You will receive an HPA if WDFW can determine that your proposed activity does not harm fish life. In that case, you must follow the provisions in your HPA and obtain any permits you may need from other agencies before starting work.

Information about required permits other than HPAs is available from the Governor’s Office for Regulatory Innovation and Assistance

(Deleted by mod)

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Chisbrns, do not go looking for an arguement...

 

[Tnmountains]

I find it interesting that the DFW has this description of the gold and fish pamphlet use on their site



And here is the actual law.



I'm thinking Fish and Wildlife makes stuff up. Certainly their description of their free pamphlet isn't in compliance with the actual laws that regulate their agency actions.

But then again some folks would line up to be shot if they got a free pamphlet at the mall that said there was a rule that they must be shot to be in compliance.

I can educate and inform but I can't fix gullible.

QUOTE : Clay diggins above/

I do not think it is gullible to be informed. Better informed then in court explaining the law to a judge. He will say did you not get the "Pamphlet"? Everyone is regulated to death.

 

[et1955]

Another reason to fill in your hole is to hide your find of a good gold spot, I have seen this happen several times on the Sultan river, a miner digs down 6ft down to the clay layer and starts hitting great gold and then leaves the hole open till he can come back, well he comes back next week only to find someone else in his hole, the original miner was pissed but could do nothing since this is public land, you should have seen the nugget the new guy pulled out. Personally I don't mind if another miner leaves his hole open, he's done all the work for me and I will jump right in and get all that he missed and then fill in the hole. WDFW controls basically all rivers from the high water line down to the river, not a jurisdiction on the DNR. They control above the high water line if it is DNR land, I have no problem with the WDFW regulating this, they have always been respectful to me but if a complaint is made they act but as long as you follow the rules your fine. Now as someone who has been mining in this state for over 45yrs. I will tell you why we are stuck with these rules, it all comes down to 2 clubs, one was a national club and the other was a state club, I belonged to both at the time and I saw the damage done. Not long after that the state basically shut down all mining for many years, you could only sluice and pan one month of the year. No offence to you guy's in California, as you are going threw what we did up here, you can still mine other ways, we were even told we could not step in the river. Fortunately all has changed. I will leave you this,fill in your holes if you are on public land. ED

 

[Clay Diggins]

I do not think it is gullible to be informed. Better informed then in court explaining the law to a judge. He will say did you not get the "Pamphlet"? Everyone is regulated to death.

I understand your point. We are all subject to lawful regulation, even in death.

But the Judge can't say "did you not get the "Pamphlet"? if the pamphlet is in opposition to the written law.

In the case of the Gold and Fish pamphlet regulation the Fish and Wildlife enforce it as a permit but when the Washington legislature passed the law they clearly stated that no permit was necessary.

From the Washington State rules of Court:

"A court will not accord deference to an administrative agency's interpretation of a statute if that interpretation conflicts with the terms of the statute itself."

In other words the Court can't rule in favor of the Gold and Fish regulation (administrative agency's enforcement of permit) when the law (Statute) clearly states otherwise (no permit needed).

You can rely on the law in court. In a republic regulation never trumps the actual law.

Heavy Pans