Dig a plug then nothings there!!

[ICE ADDICT]

Hello folks,

Sometimes when I dig a GOOD signal and remove the plug and re-scan the hole NOTHINGS there! Nothing in the hole, around the hole or in the plug. Is this a common happenstance or is something else going on. I know sometimes when you remove that first layer of dirt the tone or VDI changes a bit but, COMPLETELY disappearing is strange..

Thanks for any feedback.

 

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[gregl01]

Notice any reddish color in the soil I have had this a couple times and can only surmise there was a small piece of metal crap that when you disturb the soil it is destroyed. I know mineralization can also play havoc but our area isn't that bad. Keep diggin'

Greg

 

[neilo]

Sounds like you have a corroded target with a halo affect around it. You disturb the ground and it destroys the halo and you lose the target. Sometimes the original metal item has completely corroded away and all that is left is the halo in the ground. Try turning your machine to all metal. Sometimes if you are in a discrimination pattern the original target is accepted but once the halo is disturbed this alters the metal targets conductivity and it gets rejected. If your target vanishes you have two options. keep digging as theres a chance the target is still there but is deeper, or try all metal mode, this should find your target. What sensitivity setting are you using if you are in mineralised ground in high sensitivity settings you might be digging false signals. Try turning your machine down and swing very slowly over the target see if it is still there. Good hunting seeya Neilo

 

[Sarge]

Especially with deep coins what happens sometimes is the coin gets disturbed by digging & it's on edge. That along with losing the halo will make it disappear to further detection.

 

[ICE ADDICT]

Thanks for the responses guys. I have heard of and witnessed the halo theory, as well as the coin on edge after digging sometimes theory, and they are both excellent explanations. But theres been times where there is no redish or residual remains of something that may have previously been there in a solid form. I have run into the ol' re-positioning of the coin while retrieving it several times and will open the holes up more and go deeper as well as sift through everything when this happens, and still sometimes nothing is there. Maybe its a very small piece of metal that I cant pinpoint after retrieval cause the discriminations trying to cancel it out after uncovering it??

HHHHMMMMMM......So many possibilities..

 

[BuckleBoy]

Thanks for the responses guys. I have heard of and witnessed the halo theory, as well as the coin on edge after digging sometimes theory, and they are both excellent explanations. But theres been times where there is no redish or residual remains of something that may have previously been there in a solid form. I have run into the ol' re-positioning of the coin while retrieving it several times and will open the holes up more and go deeper as well as sift through everything when this happens, and still sometimes nothing is there. Maybe its a very small piece of metal that I cant pinpoint after retrieval cause the discriminations trying to cancel it out after uncovering it??

HHHHMMMMMM......So many possibilities..

Or a very shallow, small piece, perhaps. Try turning your plug over and run the coil over the top of it. The other thing is that when a signal disappears, just get out the loose dirt and spread it on a mat. No need to widen/deepen the hole.

Regards,


Buckleboy

 

[DFX-SE Gregg]

Do you have a pinpointer Once I lose the signal almost every time I can find the disturbed target by using a pinpointer in the ground or in the area the plug was removed.

 

[Tin Nugget]

That has happened to me and I have found the coin stuck to my digger, more than once.

 

[UncleTom]

Old bottle caps rusting away will do this and other small iron too. Tom

 

[Sarge]

That has happened to me and I have found the coin stuck to my digger, more than once.

Yes indeed. Happened to me a few weeks ago. It was right in the middle of a small clump of mud at the tip of my digger. That's not the 1st time that happened.

 

[neilo]

As I said try going to All Metal see what happens seeya Neilo :

 

[EasyMoney]

A poor ground balance does this the most often, manual or "automatic" (actually ALL detectors have automatic ground balance, even those with a "manual" adjustment). Auto GB is protocol, otherwise your detector would drive you absolutley nuts with no basic discrimination parameter (the GB).

Your GB (AKA rough discriminator) sees the ground as iron and it reacts to it.

As we all already know, our ground balance is little more than a rough discriminator, with the "discrimination" adjustment being no more than a fine tune GB adjustment. They are both the same function but one roughs it in and the other fine tunes it.

Hot rocks can do the same as in making noise when there is no metal target there, because the hot rock is seen as an invader of the normal matrix, but hot rocks are not usually as pronounced or problematic as a poor ground balance is. And yes, the GB circuit can be malfunctioning. Nearly all detectors need a tuneup when they are 5+ years old, and that's because the components lose their original chemical composition, especally resistors that have a 1% to 20% variance in value even when brand new. Capacitors and condensors can break down quickly too. A potentiometer (pot) can have dirt or residue in it and this alone can cause a poor ground balance or poor discrimination (same thing) pot problem too. Your detector may have a problem or two of this type, especially since it is beginning to age.

EasyMoney

 

[ICE ADDICT]

A poor ground balance does this the most often, manual or "automatic" (actually ALL detectors have automatic ground balance, even those with a "manual" adjustment). Auto GB is protocol, otherwise your detector would drive you absolutley nuts with no basic discrimination parameter (the GB).

Your GB (AKA rough discriminator) sees the ground as iron and it reacts to it.

As we all already kow, our ground balance is nothing more than a rough discriminator, with the "discrimination" adjustment being no more than a fine tune GB adjustment. They are both the same function but one roughs it in and the other fine tunes it.

Hot rocks can do the same, but they are not usually as pronounced or problematic as a poor ground balance. And yes, the GB circuit can be malfunctioning. Nearly all detectors need a tuneup when they are 5+ years old, and that's because the components lose their original chemical composition, especally resistors that have a 1% to 20% variance in value even when brand new. Capacitors and condensors can break down quickly too. A potentiometer (pot) can have dirt or residue in it and this alone can cause a poor ground balance or poor discrimination (same thing) pot problem too. Your detector may have a problem or two of this type, especially since it is beginning to age.

EasyMoney

wow!!!!

Easymoney you really know your electronics and transistors! As for the age of my machine , It hasn't even celebrated it's 1st birthday yet. I bought it new last summer from a very reputable dealer...But hey thats no guarantee there can't be a problem. It doesn't by no means happen all the time just every once in a while. Otherwise the XLT seems to locate and detect fine.

DFX Gregg, Yes I do use a pinpointer but this does not seem to help me in this manner..

Thanks again everybody!

Oh yeah, one other thing, I have also been hosed more than once with the old coin stuck to digger trick!..DUHHH

 

[EasyMoney]

Hey Ice, I forgot to mention one thing..

And BTW, please excuse my assumption that your detector was an older one. My mistake.

I have seen a few cases where a searchcoil had been jarred enough to loosen the coil windings inside the casing. It's a lot tougher for a web coil to have this happen though. A loose coil can cause it to act like you describe, sporadically sounding because of the need to readjust so dramatically and quickly. A new coil can have this happen to it in shipping or in bumpinga rock. It is most common in Fisher, Bounty Hunter and White's concentric or coaxial (stacked) coils, although it probably happens to less than 5% of them. Try shaking the coil while it is running and detached from the search rod, and it's at least 6 feet away from any other metal.. Don't shake it hard enough to cause a ruptured spleen but just enough to see if things are still tight inside it.

Good luck.

EasyMoney

 

[DFX-SE Gregg]

Ice addict I once again would like to say this is not to complicated... The ground gets disturbed the signal can be lost...after losing the signal move pinpointer around in hole and along the walls.... The coin stuck on digger happens once in a very great while...you mentioned this is a regular occurance....I have this happen all the time...and the pinpointers picks it up over 90% of the time...

 

[deepskyal]

Try balling the lose soil up in your hand and wave it back and forth in front of your loop.
Those disappearing signals sometimes for me, wind up being a dime or penny that poped out and sat on edge in the pile and were so packed in dirt, i couldn't see it and neither could my detector.

I wave my hand past the loop, turning my hand in different directions and find my "nothing" target. Sometimes a coin, sometimes an itsy-bitsy piece of foil.
Al

 

[mthole]

Just another note on same subject. We had a old, old fairgrounds property near my home. Tons of signals, mt holes. Mystery solved. I was hunting the .22 target booth, same with bb's. Nothing left but powder. Found lots of other goodies though. Larry

 

[gw1952]

What you may find if you will dig it up is a rusty mail exspecialy ones that are bent will throw off pin point. Next a rusty nail or wire next to a good target. It may help if you get a deeper probe usally the nail is 1" off to the side.

 

[The-Bone]

one other thing that can cause this is a paper thin piece of foil from a piece of candy or whatever. Usually i get it to register as a coin and when i dig the plug it disappears, then when i fill the hole back in it reappears..this is a tell tale sign of foil

 

[JackInFlorida]

I have this happen often at the beach. Get a signal, dig two or three scoops, then no signal. I have learned that this means the target was in the wall of the hole and fell to the bottom, out of range, on my last scoop. The pinpointer can find it, as Greg suggested, or I know now to just take a scoop of sand right from the bottom of the hole and spread it out and the target is there, 4 out of 5 times.

Jack