Die Punches

[cuzcosquirrel]

In 1732, the Mexico Mint changed over to bust type milled 8 escudos. This may be the reason that they could conclude immediately that the coins were fake. There are other signs I can see that point to this 8 escudo above being fake, such as it has an impossible secondary strike pattern around its edge. A metallic survey probably turned up a metal or alloy associated with modern gold smelting and refining.

I remember creating a diagram of the complete tax stamp found on the 1622 gold bars from the Atocha and Maragarita several years ago, and then wondering why they had not used it, or the technology they used to create it, to also make coin dies.

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

I think this is one of the fake kind they are talking about:

Where did you get those pics? Looks like eBay.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

bigcypresshunter, cuzcosquirrel, Divewrecks, Great Information guys It's sad reading this stuff about Mel.
On a similar note, most here know I'm not a fan of O.M.R because of the Mercedes debacle. with that aside,
I am concerned with their sale of Authentic replica coins from the Black Swan as they call it, Authentic
Encapsulated by the Numismatic guaranty corporation with certificate of Authenticity, for a replica
I don't know what I think, your thoughts on this would be appreciated.
Cheers, Sam

 

[divewrecks]

I don't know if that was a smart business decision or not by OMR. On one hand, it generates immediate cash flow that they probably need. On the other hand, it may reduce by a small percentage the number of potential buyers when the huge number of authentic coins hits the market. Just like the Atocha, why have a low grade "real" coin for a price much higher than a replica?

A guy was sitting beside me on a recent flight wearing a mounted 8 reale with a gold chain. I'm certain it was a fake, but somehow restrained myself from saying "nice replica"!

Stan

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

While I haven't sold a replica in a couple of years, I think replicas can be very fun, especially in the case of very rare or imperfect surviving specimens. I am slowly working on a Mexico mint 1698 royal 4 escudos replica- a coin that probably never existed, for a friend.

I understand that OMR is trying to make some money while they work through who owns the silver from the Mercedes, and that they are primarily focused on the recovery and salvage of premium coin lots for sale. I think even a replica coin around someone's neck or used as a dial on a watch connects them with an earlier time that they learn something about. In most cases, you would not want to use a real artifact anyway for this, and it tends to use it up, as in the case of many gold coins that were cleaned and polished for use in jewelry.

People are attracted to Spanish treasure through the images of the time, its lore and adventure, and the beauty and rarity of it. While I may not agree with some business models used or methods, I would rather see treasure discovered and cataloged than sit on site and be lost. My own experiences with watching metal rust upon the sand has hardened my belief in this. Not everyone is going to be able to afford a silver coin, or a bar, and the premiums demanded for these luxury belongings from salvors make them very unsensible to purchase.

When people sell fakes as real though, they are misleading others about history, and I don't like having to go through several hundred pictures to try and determine what is real and what is a fantasy piece.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Thanks for your words of wisdom guys, We will see if this causes problems down the track with people trying to sell them as
the real item.
I received Menzel book of cobs, thanks for the recommendation Stan, great Information.
Cheers, Sam

 

[divewrecks]

I received Menzel book of cobs, thanks for the recommendation Stan, great Information.

That will keep you busy reading a while Sam.

See page 456-457 for that Guatemalla 1 reale I posted a link to.

Stan

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

I just looked it up and the one I posted was a 1714 type U. I still think it is a pretty sketchy coin.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Swizzle Sticks or Swindle Sticks?

 

[cuzcosquirrel]

Both of these gold coin types can be found in the Sedwick known fake gold cobs gallery. The only difference between the two types is that the 1731 type includes the date on the obverse border.