Did Herman Petrasch give a newspaper interview the day before he died?

[Cubfan64]

You can't change the words of a newspaper article just because it fits your theory. The fact is, the way the newspaper article is written it's VERY CLEAR the implication is that the "quartz" is a mine about a mile farther away from the "placer." even if you remove the comma, the meaning is exactly the same - the word "farther" is the key - farther than what? Markmar believes it refers back to the camp, but it again VERY CLEARLY as written with or without the comma means "farther from the placer."

The author of the article otherwise could have said, "From their camp they could walk a mile to the "placer" and the "quartz," a second mine."

Incidentally, I have no idea what Hermann actually said to the reporter - all we have to go by is what was written and the english language is very clear that the "farther than" comment refers to the placer and not the camp.

I also agree with Dave, this is all moot anyways because Hermann would never have told a newspaper reporter ANYTHING that would potentially lead someone to the mine.

 

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[markmar]

is this a quote from barry storm?

No it's from Mary's interview.

 

[azdave35]

No it's from Mary's interview.

quote from cub and this is very important to anyone that puts stock in this article:

"Incidentally, I have no idea what Hermann actually said to the reporter - all we have to go by is what was written"....think hard on this

 

[Idahodutch]

quote from cub and this is very important to anyone that puts stock in this article:

"Incidentally, I have no idea what Hermann actually said to the reporter - all we have to go by is what was written"....think hard on this

That’s correct, what is written.
And a mile farther, than the first mine puts you within reach of the directions from the Holmes manuscript ..... one of the big snares ..... finding where the two meet.

I think hard on it frequently.
Is there another ravine where the the 2 sets of directions meet up?
I only found one, no matter how much I were to loosen the confines of what is written, and if I did, then would be pretending to be following the directions. I am still with plan A. Following the directions.

 

[markmar]

You can't change the words of a newspaper article just because it fits your theory. The fact is, the way the newspaper article is written it's VERY CLEAR the implication is that the "quartz" is a mine about a mile farther away from the "placer." even if you remove the comma, the meaning is exactly the same - the word "farther" is the key - farther than what? Markmar believes it refers back to the camp, but it again VERY CLEARLY as written with or without the comma means "farther from the placer."

The author of the article otherwise could have said, "From their camp they could walk a mile to the "placer" and the "quartz," a second mine."

Incidentally, I have no idea what Hermann actually said to the reporter - all we have to go by is what was written and the english language is very clear that the "farther than" comment refers to the placer and not the camp.

I also agree with Dave, this is all moot anyways because Hermann would never have told a newspaper reporter ANYTHING that would potentially lead someone to the mine.

I believe Herman told what he knew about, at the time he was giving the interview. Maybe left some info out but we don't know for certain if this occured.
What Herman would tell more to his trusted friend that we don't know? About the horse head and the three pines which are mentioned only in Julia's map? And why his trusted friend wasn't able to find the LDM if he would knew more than others?
If you believe i was tried to modify the text in regards to fit in my theory, it's ok. You can take the text like the reporter has written it in her run , maybe in stenography, and what her mind set reproduced Herman's narative.

 

[markmar]

quote from cub and this is very important to anyone that puts stock in this article:

"Incidentally, I have no idea what Hermann actually said to the reporter - all we have to go by is what was written"....think hard on this

Dave, conspiracy is good, but don't works anytime , everywhere and for everybody. A reporter can't change what was told in an interview without the agreement of the person who was interviewed. Never a reporter would take such risk which could lead in a court that would result in the defamation of the reporter and his newspaper, and a proper sum asked from the reclamant for compensation.
Herman was poor, but this doesn't means he hadn't rights and every cunning reporter could play with his story.

 

[azdave35]

Dave, conspiracy is good, but don't works anytime , everywhere and for everybody. A reporter can't change what was told in an interview without the agreement of the person who was interviewed. Never a reporter would take such risk which could lead in a court that would result in the defamation of the reporter and his newspaper, and a proper sum asked from the reclamant for compensation.
Herman was poor, but this doesn't means he hadn't rights and every cunning reporter could play with his story.

marius...mary bagwell wasn't a reporter...she interviewed herman for an article which she sold to a magazine...and herman couldn't have sued her if he wanted...he was totally broke...the shanty shack he was living in had no electricity or running water..herman couldn't afford to pay attention...much less hire a lawyer...mary probably paid herman 10 bucks for the interview and sold it to the magazine for 50 bucks..and that map that is being touted as julia's...the one that has 3 pine trees....the superstition mountains are desert with no pine trees....except on the east end where the silver chief is...it is over 5000 ft elevation....it has pine trees.....herman used to tell alot of people stories about waltz...bring him some booze or food and he would talk....but he only told one man the real story...and i know most of what he told andy but it wont do anyone any good....it hasn't so far...

 

[Cubfan64]

marius...mary bagwell wasn't a reporter...she interviewed herman for an article which she sold to a magazine...and herman couldn't have sued her if he wanted...he was totally broke...the shanty shack he was living in had no electricity or running water..herman couldn't afford to pay attention...much less hire a lawyer...mary probably paid herman 10 bucks for the interview and sold it to the magazine for 50 bucks..and that map that is being touted as julia's...the one that has 3 pine trees....the superstition mountains are desert with no pine trees....except on the east end where the silver chief is...it is over 5000 ft elevation....it has pine trees.....herman used to tell alot of people stories about waltz...bring him some booze or food and he would talk....but he only told one man the real story...and i know most of what he told andy but it wont do anyone any good....it hasn't so far...

Dave, I wish I could remember all the sources I've read and heard over the years but I don't anymore without doing a lot of digging. I have a "tickle" in my brain that I remember hearing at one point that Hermann was treated sort of like a "mascot" by some of the old timers back then - have you ever heard that? I don't like to name family names without providing a source, but I thought one or more of the rancher family's that he did odd job work for used to treat him pretty poorly - either that or it was the ranch hands that made fun of a "stupid old man" if I remember correctly.

I thought in his later years it was fairly well known that he thought Waltz's source of gold was somewhere in the Fraser/Randolph/Roger's trough area and that he may have even had a pretty good idea where it was, but for whatever reason he was intimidated enough to stay out of those areas.

Not asking you to give away any information, but does any of that sound like something you've heard or are they just yet another windbag full of rumors?

 

[azdave35]

Dave, I wish I could remember all the sources I've read and heard over the years but I don't anymore without doing a lot of digging. I have a "tickle" in my brain that I remember hearing at one point that Hermann was treated sort of like a "mascot" by some of the old timers back then - have you ever heard that? I don't like to name family names without providing a source, but I thought one or more of the rancher family's that he did odd job work for used to treat him pretty poorly - either that or it was the ranch hands that made fun of a "stupid old man" if I remember correctly.

I thought in his later years it was fairly well known that he thought Waltz's source of gold was somewhere in the Fraser/Randolph/Roger's trough area and that he may have even had a pretty good idea where it was, but for whatever reason he was intimidated enough to stay out of those areas.

Not asking you to give away any information, but does any of that sound like something you've heard or are they just yet another windbag full of rumors?

cub...he worked for the martins and they let him build a cabin on their land and they pretty much took care of him when he got too old to work...they liked him and did what they could for him..and yes he thought it was the area you say but was scared off by the local ranchers.......and i'm not sure but he may have not been as much intimidated but knew better than to crap in his own nest if you know what i mean..i'm sending you a p.m.

 

[Barber..]

this is all moot anyways because Hermann would never have told a newspaper reporter ANYTHING that would potentially lead someone to the mine.

This, and he spelled moot right.

A reporter can't change what was told in an interview without the agreement of the person who was interviewed.

Haven't watched the news lately huh.

 

[Cubfan64]

This, and he spelled moot right.

LOL - that's a pet peeve of mine. I should have used the generally accepted spelling of it as "mute" right? hehe

 

[markmar]

Just a last input about if the Placer mine is one mile farther than Quartz mine. From what we know, Waltz worked two mines, the Quartz ( the inclined shaft 40 feet down and 6 feet across aka Sombrero mina ) and the Placer ( the narrow like a barrel opening or a rat hole with the walled tunnel below ).
There are some clues which put the two mines within few hundred feet. One of the clues is that where Waltz said how the vein of the inclined shaft blows out about 3-4 hundred feet below. The second clue is when Waltz describes the richest mine in the world and mentions how little up on the mountaiside is well hidden in the brush the inclined shaft which goes in the middle of the vein. The third clue is in Jim Bark's notes on Dr. Thorne story, which says how while Thorne was walking to the residual placer, he saw a shaft mine beside the trail. And another clue is from John Reed mention how his father knew about a tunnel at the side of the cliff below but was never able to find it ( maybe because Waltz walled it up and erased any trace of it ).
So, IMHO is not very difficult to understand how those mines are located apart each other. The mistake in the text would be atributed , first to the reporter who was taken the notes, or second to Herman who of unknown reasons passed the wrong info to the reporter.

Have a nice weekend

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Follow the history of Hermann for clues.

Hermann Petrasch came to Phoenix with his family in 1883. While there the family engaged as farmers and store clerks. In June of 1885 Hermann's 13 year old brother George died of dysentery at their home on West Jackson street. Hermann's father Gottfreid bought 6 grave sites in the city cemetery and George was buried in one of them. Six years later Jacob Waltz would be buried in one of the Petrasch graves next to George Petrasch.

Several months after the death of George the Petrasch family broke up. The mother Helena and daughter Pauline went back to Kansas where they had come from to live with their extended family. The father Gottfreid and Hermann traveled to Montana to follow a gold strike. Rhinehart Petrasch stayed in Phoenix and borded a room from Julia Thomas a neighbor.

In July 1892 Gottfreid and Hermann Petrasch returned to Phoenix and soon went into the Superstition mountains looking for Waltz's mine. Julia Thomas accompanied them on this search. Later Gottfreid, Hermmann and Joe Gilmore would make a second attempt at locating the mine.

Rhinehart worked as a clerk for Julia and Emil Thomas bakery and ice cream parlor in Phoenix. Gottfreid Petrasch got a job working for the Bark Criswell ranch and established a camp at the head of Indian Springs canyon which he also used as a base to search for Waltz's mine. Hermann Petrasch worked for the Fraser Reavis ranch which at that time included today's JF Martin ranch and range.

For several years Hermann and his father together searched the western area of Tortilla mountain, Peters canyon and Peters mesa for Waltzs mine. They were so well known to that area that Peters canyon and Peters mesa were named for Gottfreid Petrasch who was known to everyone as old Pete.There was a line shack on the Reavis range near today's JF Martin ranch. That is the shack Hermann lived in until his death in 1953. It was William Knight the foreman for the Fraser Reavis ranch who set Hermann up in that old shack to live and later Billy Martin allowed him to stay there.

Hermann would often get visitors who questioned him about the location of Waltz mine. He would always encourage the visitor to search whatever area the visitor thought the mine might be. However when Hermann seriously searched for the mine himself, he searched the same area as his father.

 

[Barber..]

LOL - that's a pet peeve of mine. I should have used the generally accepted spelling of it as "mute" right? hehe

It bugs the hell out of me too..That and assume instead of as soon.

 

[Gregory E. Davis]

Thanks Matthew: That is a great report on the history of Herman Petrasch and his family. Cordially, Gregory E. Davis