Did anyone ever get cited for removing relics or artifacts from state game lands

[Colonial Copper Zeus]

I was driving around on a Pa. State gamelands road and saw one of their Rules and regulations poster and decided to stop and read it. On one of the lines it says that you cannot remove historical or archaeological items from the land. Just what is historic to them. Are old coins classified as non removable?
I know they can fine you for alot of things as I was ticketed last year for shooting a pellet gun in the woods and hitting some trees. The concervation officer was more worried about the potential future profit of the maple tree than the pellets hitting people.
Chris

 

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[garrettman64]

Yes I do beleive so make sure you check with state reg. there are laws because these things coins artifacts Etc are in fact protected by law.

I was going to go to pa but now i am not sure i wanted to visit battle grounds but do not think mding is alloud there so i guess ill stay up here with no place to hunt any more
from garrettman64

 

[vpone]

DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED ON PA STATE GAME LANDS AND FORESTS !!

PA State Game Lands - it seems that Hunters have the right to kill and remove animals from the State Game Lands - as well as trash the place up with bullet shells, cans and every other type of trash imaginable BUT a metal detector is not allowed on the very same land

What a JOKE !!

PA State Forest - are a little better but not much (see the attached image) - you can use a metal detector at State Forest Parks but not designated "Wild Areas"

Problem is there are many large Ghost towns left over from the lumber and coal eras in my area - all predating 1900 - prime hunting right ? NO - they are all located on these lands

so to recap - Hunters, ATV riders, campers, hikers all can use this land but a metal detectorist can not

there is a huge ghost town located in a very remote location near here - 1860's & 70's - over 300 homes and 1500 people lived there at it's peak - prime hunting right ? NO says the PA State Forest people - off limits

sorry to vent but again WHAT A JOKE - talk about a double standard !

vp

 

[Green1]

we got one here in mass that's off limits........

 

[TeddyB1967]

This may help .... http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/stateparks/findinfo/newrulesregs.pdf



Also, I sent an email to Bald Eagle State Park and they responded back with a very nice letter explaining their Rules & Regs. wich apply to most State Parks in PA. BUT each area has their own rules so you may need to ask a few questions before MD'ing. Most of the rules are not too bad, common sense kind of stuff. Also, the guy's I talked to at the Sayer's Dam Office were super nice fella's and gave me a few tips and also said they are not alway's extremely strict on the rules, they can and usually will be very lenient depending on the person MD'ing and the situation. They put my name/contact info on a Metal Detector's List. Historical value would be something from the Civil War, Indian artifacts, anything over (I think) 100 yrs old etc. If your not sure then ask at the park office.
Best advice I can give to anyone is too go to any of the park office's and introduce yourself, and ask alot of questions and let them know your intentions. Be very friendly and respectful and they will definately return it back to you. The officer's are very proud of the state lands and parks and want nothing more than to have people out there to enjoy what these places have to offer. They want you out there, but they also expect everyone to respect the lands and the parks as they do themselves.

Here is the letter I recieved back, I was asking about MD'ing at Foster Joseph Sayer's Damn (Blanchard - Center County) .... They also gave me some info from Rachel Carson State Office Building in Harrisburg, Bureau of State Parks specifically about MD'ing. I can scan this info if anyone would like to have it.

Dear Ms. ----- ------:

The reasonable use of metal detectors is permitted in many state parks. Metal detecting is not permitted where this activity would conflict with a facility in use. Metal detecting is not permitted within fenced areas of swimming pool complexes (state operated or concession operated). At many parks, metal detecting on beaches and in lake swimming areas will be permitted within a reasonable distance of shore from the Tuesday after Labor Day until the Saturday prior to Memorial Day. During the summer season, metal detecting in beach and swimming areas will be at the discretion of the park manager based on his knowledge of the use and type of facility. Metal detecting in other underwater areas will be permitted within a reasonable distance of shore if it does not conflict with other activities or have the potential for causing damage to the facility.

Many state park areas have the potential for the recovery of valuable historical objects. State park areas with this potential may have part or all of their area closed to metal detecting. The finding of historical objects in any state park area should be handled by first contacting the park manager of the particular park. In addition, persons should consult the Pennsylvania Historical and Museum Commission if they are seeking or find historical artifacts.

Shovels, spades, garden trowels, and other similar tools may not be used to dig into or turn over ground areas that are covered by turf, vegetation, shrubs, or trees. Permissible digging tools are screwdrivers, ice picks, and other similar narrow pronged devices.

Individuals who want to use a metal detector in a state park must receive prior approval from the appropriate park office and report items which are found and will be removed from the park.

The above guidelines only pertain to state park lands. Persons should contact the Pennsylvania Game Commission, Pennsylvania Fish and Boat Commission and/or the DCNR Bureau of Forestry for guidelines applicable to their lands.

Thank you for your interest in PA State Parks. Please contact me if you have any further questions.
John Ferrara
Park Manager
Bald Eagle State Park
(814) 625-2775
[email protected]

 

[vpone]

2nd try on the response i got back

 

[jeff of pa]

Regarding State Game Lands.
I just Looked at a Sign this Morning Also.

Did you notice the part about

"Any Manmade Object"

& YES

This means you can be arrested for Removing Trash Also.
Years ago I read of a person actually being arrested for removing
a pile of trash from State game lands.

 

[l.cutler]

While I don't agree with the rule against metal detecting don't forget, the hunters are paying for the game lands through sales of hunting licenses. Littering ,even by hunters on PA game lands is illegal and punishable by fines.

 

[VOL1266-X]

I was told that recovery of any artifacts on U.S. Army Corps of Engineers property would result in a hefty fine and loss of your md. This is the result of arrowhead hunters digging into indian graves. In PA, the difference in game hunting and MD is the state gets $ from selling game hunters permits. I have heard many horror stories-better check the site regs. Good luck!

 

[TeddyB1967]

I didn't realize the difference between State Parks and State Game Lands were so huge. I knew the of course were different rules for both, but not to this extent. What I posted above pertains to the State Parks.You would think cleaning up the trash would be wanted, rather than it laying around where it would affect the wild life.


I think I'll stick to the State Park with the friendly Officer's that I met

 

[jeff of pa]

I didn't realize the difference between State Parks and State Game Lands were so huge. I knew the of course were different rules for both, but not to this extent. What I posted above pertains to the State Parks.You would think cleaning up the trash would be wanted, rather than it laying around where it would affect the wild life.


I think I'll stick to the State Park with the friendly Officer's that I met

Yes DEP is Great.
Their Officers are Very friendly

 

[vpone]

i would G L A D L Y pay for a permit to "hunt" these sites as well - none is offered or will be offered .... again in my opinion these rules are double standards - plain and simple

vp

 

[vpone]

in their defense they are just enforcing the rules as they have been laid out - every DCNR person I have talked with has also been VERY professional and courteous ...

here is the response back from the DCNR director for this area :

Mr. <deleted>:

Thank you for your inquiry regarding metal detecting in the McIntyre Wild Area
of the Loyalsock State Forest.

District management does not feel that it would be in the best interest of the
Commonwealth to waive or modify the existing metal detecting policy in this
area. While it is agreed that this site contains ample evidence of
anthropogenic disturbance and does not meet some of the parameters normally
associated with Wild Areas, the area is historically significant. One of the
reasons this site was designated a Wild Area was to afford some level of
protection to the town of McIntyre and it's environs.

All artifacts contained in this and all other area of the State Forest are
Commonwealth property and it is illegal to remove them from the site for
personal reward. Furthermore, we feel that the artifacts in this area
memorialize the residents who lived, worked and died in this town over a century
ago.

We appreciate your concern for the environment and your ethical approach to the
hobby, but we feel that any deviation from the policy would be irresponsible on
our behalf. We are not granting your request to explore with a metal detector
in the McIntyre Wild Area. We will consider this activity in other areas of the
State Forest and consider any future requests that you may have, with the
understanding that all objects found will be reviewed for historical
significance and may be retained by the Commonwealth.

Feel free to contact me if you have any additional questions.


again a very well thought out and professional response - but i still don't agree with it -

so their position is :
the area is "historically significant" so we don't want a metal detector there, but we'll continue to allow hunters, atv's, hiking and camping on the land - oh and also there's no plans to clean up the mess either ... HUGE double standard

sorry to vent - just really gets me going

vp

 

[jeff of pa]

Historical Items ?

What is that anyway ?

If I find an old coin, I don't consider it Historical,
unless a Historically Significant person Scratched their name in it.

IF I find a Cache, I wouldn't consider it Historical
unless it was Buried by a Pirate. Or Revolutionary
war General.

If I find a Rusted piece of Metal, & can't tell what it is,
I'd consider asking DCNR if it's Historical.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I heard of one purist lady archaeologist, who was walking down some east coast beach, who chanced upon a guy md'ing. Knowing he was at a state beach, she proceeded to chide him with threats of confiscation, "historic artifacts" etc...; type talk. When the hunter tried to tell her that all he was finding was modern clad, at that moment, she stopped, caught her breath, gave it some thought, and came back with this retort: "Well..... in 100 yrs from now they will be historic artifacts, therefore you shouldn't be doing this!!". Arrgghh. You can't win! What bunk! I mean, if you thought about it long enough and hard enough, and asked enough bureaucrats, pretty soon you'd be restricted to your own friggin living room!

As long as you keep a low profile, I bet no one notices or cares, unless you were being a nuisance in an obvious historical monument area.

I hunt state parks, beaches, etc... here in CA, all the time. No one's ever said "boo" to me. One time I was hunting in a federal forest campground. A rangers truck just happened to pass by the remote portion I was in. He stopped, watched me a minute, and then got out to warn me that I couldn't be doing this. I asked "why?". As we talked, he changed his story to "well, you can do this as long as you turn in anything 50 yrs. old or older". He drove off. (Wonder what happened to that 1920s half I found that day? )

 

[jeff of pa]

so a 56 Roosie is Historical
but a 58 Roosie isn't :P

IF I find a 58 Roosie tomorrow, must I turn it in
January 1st. 2008 ?


Just remember this.
IF you lost your Class ring in 1955 in a State Park.
and you are detecting & find your Ring.
Don't forget to turn it in.
So Some Archeologist can do a study
and Write a paper saying, they Believe High school Students
wore Class Rings. & they are trying to Figure out Why.
Therfore it must sit in the Archeologists Drawer,
till they can figure out if it needs to
be in the Museum of Natural History,
or where.

 

[vpone]

that's exactly what i'm talking about - the phrase "historical items" is so broad a term that even if i was aloud to metal detect on these lands, anything found would be under scrutany

the term "historical items" could be applied to almost anything of age ... and i think that's what they intended -

vp

 

[mirage hunter]

you won't get a ticket here in Maryland!! they will arrest you!! Coins or anything. If it is owned by the state and declaired historic it is off limits.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Mirage hunter, have you ever actually heard of a hunter "being arrested"? I mean, I hear this banter thrown out there to scare folks "confiscated detectors and arrested". Yet when you press those that say those things, they have a hard time ever showing an example of this happening (barring some moron night-sneaking an obvious historical site).

Jeff: You hit the nail right on head. We probably have spending change in our pockets that old!!

 

[mirage hunter]

I have not heard of any one it is just what I was told!! suposively Maryland take there historic sites seriously. I am just going by what I was Told. Beleive me I don't intend to find out!! Either way a stiff fine or arrest! If you are not supposed to be there! Their wont be any worries about if it is included in what they call artifacts under there laws. Good Luck Hunting.