Deus noob has questions...

[CharlesUpstateNY]

Okay 6 hours in the field and I have a few questions...

1. DISC - I'm used to hunting in all metal with a chatty machine, lowered Disc to 0.0, got a solid signal on a zinc cent, lowered Disc to -6.4 and it destroyed the signal, barely any hint of the coin. What's a good all metal setting for Disc?

2. I read that target normalization bunches targets up near the high conductive coins. Would turning normalization off in say 8kHz move crown caps down away from the coins? With normalization On, the crown caps ID all over the coin signals 89-99. Am I correct to assume an 98-99 is a crown cap or hot rock?

3. Observation - I swept a target from left to right, the tone started high and ended higher so increased in pitch as I swept it. Swept the same target from right to left and just the opposite, the tone started high and ended lower so decreased in pitch as I swept it. I'm talking like say 90 to 94 vs 94 to 90. Just wondering if the machine is trying to tell me something or if this is meaningless.

4. Observation - I dug more crown caps yesterday than I have dug in years of hunting with my Explorer SE Pro lol. Just want to confirm something, the crown cap gave a high tone as I swept it, then added this 'thack' sound, like tapping two pieces of wood together, hollow like an echo, almost white noise or like holding a sea shell up to your ear, so 90% high tone with a 10% short 'thack' tacked onto the end of the tone as the coil came off the crown cap. On my Explorer SE Pro crown caps POP, high tone with a very distinct POP as the coil comes off the crown cap. On the Deus just like to confirm this 'thack' confirms crown cap, and doesn't do this on other targets like coins?

My settings

Notch 00-00
Disc 0.0
Full Tones
Sens 90
TX Power 2
Freqency 8kHz
Iron Volume 0
Reactivity 2
Silencer -1
Audio Response 4
Audio Overload 1
ID Normalization On

 

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[1942 merc]

I am not alone . I to had the same problem starting out . Go to youtube and search hot and sifter programs . Use the sifter program until you get the hang of a coin and a cap . Put a cap in the ground and a coin same depth and go over each one and listen when you come off or on to the target . A coin will be a smooth tone with no iron / rust buzz coming off of it . The cap should have a buzz as you just approach the edge of it and as you come off of it .

There are way more experienced ppl that can help but just to get you back out there and going that is what worked for me .SIFTER....stick with it ....It gets better .

 

[1942 merc]

I am not alone . I to had the same problem starting out . Go to youtube and search hot and sifter programs . Use the sifter program until you get the hang of a coin and a cap . Put a cap in the ground and a coin same depth and go over each one and listen when you come off or on to the target . A coin will be a smooth tone with no iron / rust buzz coming off of it . The cap should have a buzz as you just approach the edge of it and as you come off of it .

There are way more experienced ppl that can help but just to get you back out there and going that is what worked for me .SIFTER....stick with it ....It gets better .

 

[vferrari]

Okay 6 hours in the field and I have a few questions...

1. DISC - I'm used to hunting in all metal with a chatty machine, lowered Disc to 0.0, got a solid signal on a zinc cent, lowered Disc to -6.4 and it destroyed the signal, barely any hint of the coin. What's a good all metal setting for Disc?

2. I read that target normalization bunches targets up near the high conductive coins. Would turning normalization off in say 8kHz move crown caps down away from the coins? With normalization On, the crown caps ID all over the coin signals 89-99. Am I correct to assume an 98-99 is a crown cap or hot rock?

3. Observation - I swept a target from left to right, the tone started high and ended higher so increased in pitch as I swept it. Swept the same target from right to left and just the opposite, the tone started high and ended lower so decreased in pitch as I swept it. I'm talking like say 90 to 94 vs 94 to 90. Just wondering if the machine is trying to tell me something or if this is meaningless.

4. Observation - I dug more crown caps yesterday than I have dug in years of hunting with my Explorer SE Pro lol. Just want to confirm something, the crown cap gave a high tone as I swept it, then added this 'thack' sound, like tapping two pieces of wood together, hollow like an echo, almost white noise or like holding a sea shell up to your ear, so 90% high tone with a 10% short 'thack' tacked onto the end of the tone as the coil came off the crown cap. On my Explorer SE Pro crown caps POP, high tone with a very distinct POP as the coil comes off the crown cap. On the Deus just like to confirm this 'thack' confirms crown cap, and doesn't do this on other targets like coins?

My settings

Notch 00-00
Disc 0.0
Full Tones
Sens 90
TX Power 2
Freqency 8kHz
Iron Volume 0
Reactivity 2
Silencer -1
Audio Response 4
Audio Overload 1
ID Normalization On

First of all those are generally good settings, though I would turn ID Norm off. And if you want to break up crown cap tones, cut in some silencer (3 or 4). That will not necessarily impact depth on high conductors (as previously feared, but debunked to some extent by Calabash Diggers tests in his garden) but should make the crown caps tone more obviously "off" and not a coin. Regardless, I would only use Silencer if I absolutely had to because I couldn't tell the difference in tones between a bottlecap and a coin with it off. Once you get your ear trained, you can probably back off from using silencer.

To address your specific questions:

First rule - there are no rules. There are just so many environmental variables that there are no absolutes in this hobby so I can't make guarantees, but I can tell you what generally works for me most of the time.

1. The Gold Field pitch program 10 is the Deus version of all metal, not the discrimination programs. In gold field, you can set a threshhold value and also some iron reject (similar to discrimination), but its pitch so all targets will sound the same, you will have to use target ID to figure out the target composition. It turns the Deus into a completely different machine. Because it is so foreign to the way I normally use the Deus in full tones with discrimination mode, I would only use Gold Field if I needed to go deep in mineralized ground because of the threshold setting but don't like to use it because it makes me dependent on the display for target ID. On the other hand, I sometimes use this mode to pinpoint a target or to get an ideao of its size. I llke it better than the built in pinpointer because, for one thing, it displays the target ID while I am using it unlike the built-in pinpointer. Otherwise, use 0 or just slightly negative Disc with Deus Fast as the base program.

2. Bottlecaps - with full tones, after awhile it becomes obvious BY TONE when you have hit a bottlecap. Bottlecaps sound more hollow than coins which really ping. This becomes more pronounced with the HF coils. Try to rely less on target IDs and more on the subtle things the tones are telling you, like a hint of iron grunt or edge distortion when you pass the coil over the edge of the target (coins will not do that). Other bottlecap tricks - turn up silencer to 3 or 4 it an expert setting under reactivity. It tends to cause the bottlecaps to break up in tone, especially on the HF coils. Wiggle of the target (similar to pausing at the edge of the target) to hear distortion or iron grunt. Turn of ID Norm and switch frequencies to see what that does to target ID. If you normally hunt in 8 or 12 khz and hit a suspected bottlecap, then try raising frequency to 18 to see if the Target ID raises as you would expect with a true high conducting coin. Sometimes bottlecaps will actually ID lower as you raise frequency. That is why I never run with ID Norm on (it makes everything ID as if you were running 18 khz regardless of frequency which makes all the high conductor IDs bunch up at the high end). Even running at a lower frequency with ID off will not necessarily lower a bottlecap ID that much, it may actually INCREASE it (again this is a sure clue that you have a bottlecap not a coin). Again, try not to focus too much on Target ID and listen to the tones. Finally, it is rather hit or miss, but you can try using the XY display, a coin will give you a straight diagonal line whereas a bottlecap may sound and id good, but the line will move all over the place or be sguiggly. Generally though, it IS sguiggly, you can usually also hear that distortion in the tone and don't really need the X-Y display to tell you that. Really, with all the above tools and especially with the HF coil, I seldom get fooled on a bottlecap anymore.

3. Uh, what was (were) the target(s)? What you are describing almost sounds like a partially masked target (ferrous and non-ferrous) or two different targets next to each other (e.g., a nickel and a quarter). I suspect you are asking, though, because it was indeed a single target. The only other thing I could imagine is there was local mineralization or the target (if it was a coin) was diagonal in the ground or it was an irregularly shaped target. Again, don't get to wrapped up in the target ID, if you are going to use full tones, listen to what the tones are telling you and become less dependent on the display or at least don't fret so much about the actual number. Another thing you are going to encounter sooner or later is the sweet, possibly faint tone with NO target ID. That means you probably have a deep keeper target. The saying goes that with the Deus, the tones don't lie. That means the tones will be there when the target id is non-existent or unstable. Sometimes, however, the deus will be fooled by round iron and high tones and target IDs (similar to bottlecaps) but again listen for the audible clues that it is iron.

4. Not really sure about the "thack" sound, but if you hear distortion at the edge or iron tones (provided you are running minimum Disc) then that is a clue. The best thing you can do is set up a test garden with various degraded crowncaps and coins and train your brain to recognize the subtle difference and repeatable parts of the tone distortions of bottlecaps vs. coins.

Hope this helps.

Oh and if you ever run into someone named Chase Goldman giving Deus advice, he knows what he's talking about.

 

[Rawhide]

See if you can trade it for a AT Pro lol. Just kidding, if there is a Andy S. book out there, get it. Read it about 3 times. Helped me with my Etrac. Sorry if I stepped on a toe. But its the only advice I can give not owning one.

 

[vferrari]

Great advice, Casca - should have mentioned that too. Off topic: Waddaya think about all the buzz on the Minelab Equinox?

 

[Eu_citzen]

I like to have iron volume near 3, to alert me of iron. See if it suits you.

Other then that, go out and have some fun! Targets that ring in near 98-99 can be "goodies" down deep, or deep rusted iron. If in doubt dig!

 

[vferrari]

Iron volume setting has no effect in full tones. If you disc iron out while running full tones you will not hear iron tones regardless of the iron volume setting.

 

[CharlesUpstateNY]

For me the Deus is a step backwards at sites where their are a lot of crown caps. I can already ID them by tone, that's not the issue. The issue is crown caps overlay the high conducting coins area so I can't notch them out, on the Deus picking through this mess is a huge waste of time. Maybe the HF coil will remedy this, it still hasn't arrived.

In contrast on the Explorer SE Pro crown caps are irrelevant, its like crown caps do not even exist, so that's the contrast between the two machines. ML isolated crown caps way off in a corner all by their lonesome FAR away from any coins. Worse, the Explorer SE Pro because it isolates crown caps so well when you get a co-located crown cap/coin signal (imagine how many coins are hiding under the bazillion crown caps) this pulls the crown cap up and away from its ID, still far away from coins but when you see a crown cap pulling up and away like that its an excellent clue there is a crown cap and coin in the same plug. I lose this on the Deus.

 

[CharlesUpstateNY]

3. Uh, what was (were) the target(s)? What you are describing almost sounds like a partially masked target (ferrous and non-ferrous)

4. Not really sure about the "thack" sound, but if you hear distortion at the edge or iron tones (provided you are running minimum Disc) then that is a clue. The best thing you can do is set up a test garden with various degraded crowncaps and coins and train your brain to recognize the subtle difference and repeatable parts of the tone distortions of bottlecaps vs. coins.

3. The target was a crown cap, I just thought it odd how the pitch was rising or falling depending on the direction of the swing, an anomaly I found curious.

4. I guess you could call it distortion, definitely at the edge of the target as the center of the coil passed the crown cap. I have a high end sound recorder I'll go record one of these in the field and let you all give a listen.

 

[Iron Patch]

For me the Deus is a step backwards at sites where their are a lot of crown caps. I can already ID them by tone, that's not the issue. The issue is crown caps overlay the high conducting coins area so I can't notch them out, on the Deus picking through this mess is a huge waste of time. Maybe the HF coil will remedy this, it still hasn't arrived.

In contrast on the Explorer SE Pro crown caps are irrelevant, its like crown caps do not even exist, so that's the contrast between the two machines. ML isolated crown caps way off in a corner all by their lonesome FAR away from any coins. Worse, the Explorer SE Pro because it isolates crown caps so well when you get a co-located crown cap/coin signal (imagine how many coins are hiding under the bazillion crown caps) this pulls the crown cap up and away from its ID, still far away from coins but when you see a crown cap pulling up and away like that its an excellent clue there is a crown cap and coin in the same plug. I lose this on the Deus.

I am new to the Deus also, and there is really no point comparing it to an explorer as they are vastly different. Some things the Deus excels at over the explorer, and some things the Explorer will always do better. I'm stoked to have both, and had I realized what a great combination it is, I would have done it years ago.

PS: If you're a long-time explorer user, and used to post on the Findmall over a decade ago, I remember you as I was also a regular at the time. Early 2000s.

 

[G.A.P.metal]

I was in the lake yesterday and ran into a lot of crown caps.just slid the coil back to the outer edge of the target ,got the iron grunt ...yep crown caps dug about 5 to confirm and left the rest.
The caps in the lake are usually by them self so rimming them is easy.. if in a park with other target in the mix i don`t know
I`m a relic hunter not many crown caps in my fields/ cabin sites to old for those, but plenty of other targets in the mix.
Those bent iron square nails will fool most any detector operator to dig...that is one of the places the Deus shines.
I still dig more junk targets than good heck i`v been doing that for 49 years.
The Deus will grow on ya !
Gary

 

[CharlesUpstateNY]

I am new to the Deus also, and there is really no point comparing it to an explorer as they are vastly different. Some things the Deus excels at over the explorer, and some things the Explorer will always do better. I'm stoked to have both, and had I realized what a great combination it is, I would have done it years ago.

PS: If you're a long-time explorer user, and used to post on the Findmall over a decade ago, I remember you as I was also a regular at the time. Early 2000s.

I purchased the Deus primarily for hunting GOLD so I have no problem notching out all the high conductors which will make crown caps go away on the Deus. For high conductive coins I'll have to avoid crown cap infested sites just not a good fit for the Deus. Also looking for the Deus to perform at a few sites locally the Explorer can't handle. Combination of rusty nails and magnetic volcanic black sand, a combination that blinds the Explorer and cuts depth to about 5 inches. Some sites are undetectable with an Explorer, even the 8 inch coil its like detecting on a cast iron plate the machine just squeals and overloads. These first few park hunts with the Deus is just to get a feel for the machine before I wade into the nightmare sites.

Yes I am that Charles (UpstateNY) from 2000 and yes I'm still modding my Explorers

 

[vferrari]

A site that has a carpet of crown caps sounds fun. I guess you can get what you can out of it with the Explorer or pull the crown caps as you encounter them. No detector can work miracles, except obviously the Equinox which will be bestowed upon us directly from the hands of angels in heaven.

If you are going to hunt in highly mineralized ground for mid-conductors, the gold field all metal pitch program (10) might be the ticket. Let me know if you want more info on that.

 

[Toothpick]

No detector can work miracles, except obviously the Equinox which will be bestowed upon us directly from the hands of angels in heaven.

 

[CharlesUpstateNY]

A site that has a carpet of crown caps sounds fun. I guess you can get what you can out of it with the Explorer or pull the crown caps as you encounter them. No detector can work miracles, except obviously the Equinox which will be bestowed upon us directly from the hands of angels in heaven.

If you are going to hunt in highly mineralized ground for mid-conductors, the gold field all metal pitch program (10) might be the ticket. Let me know if you want more info on that.

When the HF coil arrives I'll be heading back to this area...

 

[vferrari]

If you need me to be wherever that is to personally help you set up your Deus, just PM me. Lol.

 

[CharlesUpstateNY]

Have you heard of the Potato Patch?

 

[CharlesUpstateNY]

Back to my noob Deus thread topic, I did have a chance to use the MI-6 pin pointer. I planned to mock it and give it the stink eye for not having tone ID like my X1 pin pointer but it was surprisingly useful. My Deus pin pointing is spot on center so I didn't really need the tone ID, yet.

 

[vferrari]

Yeah, they said they were going to make it like a Sunray, but it is a pulse probe and there are no plans to give it tone ID - missed opportunity IMO, but a decent, sensitive pinpointer nevertheless. I sometimes use Gold Field as a pinpoint mode because it gives a proximity pitch in addition to target ID, which is more useful to me than the built-in pinpointer. But the handheld holds its own and despite odd button placement and the odd tone burp and very occasional loss of connectivity, I have not felt the need to pull out my Carrot since getting it.