Desert markers and symbols

[Alpha137]

I would refer you to a previous post I made here on TNet a couple-three years ago that contained a bunch of useful links about Spanish law regarding mining in Mexico, plus some information about who contracted to pay for and organize the expeditions, work the mines, and how the proceeds were to be divided. Unfortunately, now I can't search back far enough in my old posts to find it. Regardless, anyone who's interested enough in the subject can certainly educate himself if he wants true facts. I say this because so many TNet posters have gotten the wrong idea about how the old system worked. It's understandable since so many other posters try to convince us that there are hundreds if not thousands of "Spanish treasure caches" all over America just waiting to be found. First thought then: decide if you want to be real or fantasize.

Thought two: getting back to a site was a problem that the miner had to work out for himself, using his own methods. Carvings, cairns, maps, whatever floated his boat. In today's Southwest, there are very few true "Spanish" mines, IMO. The contractors, who paid for the operations, had so much better value choices to be exploited in Mexico than here. Try to erase from your mind the idea of a "King's Code" for marking mines, ala Kenworthy and others. There was none in use in the Southwest. That's internet fake news.

Most pre-Anglo workings found are Mexican. Most of these were found by Anglos in the 1850s and claimed as their own. And were worked out.

Third thought: your alchemical and VF examples are non-native, meaning somebody probably well-educated carved them for a reason. The rest you can ignore, although a good trick was to hide modern info among native carvings. In your case, I'd focus on that Mercury thing with the circled dots and other two circles. It may be a sort of code urging you along, or just a "Hey look" carving because it's so different from all the rest in the area. Either way, someone presumably did it for a good reason.

Fourth thought: when you post on TNet, or any other forum, the material is in the public domain and anyone can use it. I think also that TNet also has some sort of rights to the content. Check the rules.

I am definitely focused on finding out what is the actual reality of these things. Fantasizing about what could be would get me nowhere. It is detective work and there is tons of contradicting and fanciful information out there. Thinking things through and following logic never hurt anyone. I would love to see the link you are talking about. A question about the miner using his own markers to get back to a site. Would the miners be freelancers or government entities working for the crown and/or church? It seems that if they were exploring for the gov that they would document things within a system, and possibly do things so others could find what the miner found. That idea is what was behind my comment that you were speaking to. If he was working only for himself then my idea would probably be useless.

As far as public domain goes that is fine. I just didn't want GPS locations revealed in any forgotten exif data. I have removed it, but if I forget to remove it on a picture or something before I post a picture I was wondering if it is retrievable. Some forums automatically strip exif data when pictures are uploaded. I can't find info regarding if that happens here or not.

 

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[Alpha137]

Also, did you chalk the vf and are the lines carved deep or just scratches?

I have not chalked any of them, but that is on the agenda. I have known about this place for years and have just kind of admired it without immersing myself in the what if's too much. A bit of exploration, a bit of what if thinking, and research and that is about it. Some of the carvings are deep carvings and others are not. Some are pecked in and others are scratched. You can see some of the carvings were carved over much older carvings. Using a negative filter reveals a lot of those. There are even some possible old face carvings on some of the rocks. It is a myriad of carvings from different times and really cool, IMO.

 

[mdog]

Good question. Why indeed? Maybe to let others from a follow up expedition know about processes needed, or used in the area? Also, the spot is full of carvings and symbols because it lends itself naturally to it. It is a bunch of flat rocks bunched together and makes for a good area to carve. It is like a whole bunch of individual tablets. Just a guess on my part. An no, I have not personally seen this symbol carved in other rocks.

The next time you are out there, here’s something you might try. Measure the lines that form the V and F. Go in the direction that the F is pointing and look for carvings that have the same measurement. Look for carvings that may have lines or maybe three carvings that form a triangle with the same measurements. Go the direction the F is pointing and look out at least 500 yards. Might be something closer than that, though. Just something for you to check.

 

[Alpha137]

The next time you are out there, here’s something you might try. Measure the lines that form the V and F. Go in the direction that the F is pointing and look for carvings that have the same measurement. Look for carvings that may have lines or maybe three carvings that form a triangle with the same measurements. Go the direction the F is pointing and look out at least 500 yards. Might be something closer than that, though. Just something for you to check.

Okay. That is something I could definitely do. Could be fun if something lines up that way. Btw, there is something that fits (without measuring) kind of with what you are suggesting. It will be interesting to see if it works out mathematically going off the carvings. I would post a picture of what I am talking about, but I still haven't gotten a response from treasurenet regarding a few questions.

 

[mdog]

Okay. That is something I could definitely do. Could be fun if something lines up that way. Btw, there is something that fits (without measuring) kind of with what you are suggesting. It will be interesting to see if it works out mathematically going off the carvings. I would post a picture of what I am talking about, but I still haven't gotten a response from treasurenet regarding a few questions.

If you find a carved square or rectangle with other stuff carved inside or outside the the square or rectangle, the size of the rectangle or square is what could be connected to the V F. Anything else could represent terrain features or instructions.

 

[mdog]

I’d like to know what the measurements of the V F are, if you don’t mind.

 

[mdog]

When you are looking at the hump on the snake, straight on, what direction are you facing? I’m talking about the snake in your first picture.

 

[sdcfia]

I am definitely focused on finding out what is the actual reality of these things. Fantasizing about what could be would get me nowhere. It is detective work and there is tons of contradicting and fanciful information out there. Thinking things through and following logic never hurt anyone. I would love to see the link you are talking about. A question about the miner using his own markers to get back to a site. Would the miners be freelancers or government entities working for the crown and/or church? It seems that if they were exploring for the gov that they would document things within a system, and possibly do things so others could find what the miner found. That idea is what was behind my comment that you were speaking to. If he was working only for himself then my idea would probably be useless.

As far as public domain goes that is fine. I just didn't want GPS locations revealed in any forgotten exif data. I have removed it, but if I forget to remove it on a picture or something before I post a picture I was wondering if it is retrievable. Some forums automatically strip exif data when pictures are uploaded. I can't find info regarding if that happens here or not.

Well, I couldn't find that old post searching TNet, but a Google search turned it up. It must have been cached somewhere. It wasn't 2-3 years old, but was from 2012! Time flies. My posting ID was "Springfield" in those days. The thread starts with my Jan 12, 2012, 02:28 pm post - be sure to start there. I guess the entire thread is intact, although it's hard to keep the players straight. The link at the beginning of that first post takes you to a Google search return that's a good place to start finding info.

Who Owned Those Spanish Mines?

 

[mdog]

Can you describe the turtle and heart carvings? Are they far apart or close together. Can you also describe the heart formation.

 

[mdog]

Sdcfia, I remember your Who Owned Those Spanish Mines thread. That was one of your best. Did you ever find your thread about the turtle and snake symbols. That was a great one too.

 

[sdcfia]

Sdcfia, I remember your Who Owned Those Spanish Mines thread. That was one of your best. Did you ever find your thread about the turtle and snake symbols. That was a great one too.

Nope. Tnet deleted it. Wish I'd have copied it. Oh, well ...

 

[Alpha137]

Can you describe the turtle and heart carvings? Are they far apart or close together. Can you also describe the heart formation.

Sure. One is a large ledge carved out of bedrock that you see as you look down an entrance way. It is about 6' in width. Carved into the large heart ledge is a smaller one about 2' in width, and next to that heart is another one a couple of inches in width. Basically there is a large heart with two small hearts carved into the surface. There is also a couple of loose carved white heart stones about the same size as the small heart on the ledge. The loose stones were found at the base of the ledge. I have looked for more, but so far no luck.

 

[mdog]

How close are the hearts from the VF. When you look at the big heart with the point at your feet and the lobes above them, how are the two littler hearts setup on the big one.

 

[Alpha137]

How close are the hearts from the VF. When you look at the big heart with the point at your feet and the lobes above them, how are the two littler hearts setup on the big one.

They are over a mile distant. I had to follow a trail and other markers to get to the hearts. The VF points to the trail and a stone circle that lead me to the canyon with the hearts, basically. When you come down the trail, past some other markers, you get to the vault entrance and the turtle. If you where to walk through the "vault" you would be looking directly down at the big heart ledge, with the point pointing direct back at you from about 20 yards away. If you walk down to the heart ledge the 2' heart is perpendicular to the direction you are walking, but the smaller heart points in the direction you just traveled - as per the pointed bottom of it.

 

[Alpha137]

The large heart ledge.

 

[mdog]

They are over a mile distant. I had to follow a trail and other markers to get to the hearts. The VF points to the trail and a stone circle that lead me to the canyon with the hearts, basically. When you come down the trail, past some other markers, you get to the vault entrance and the turtle. If you where to walk through the "vault" you would be looking directly down at the big heart ledge, with the point pointing direct back at you from about 20 yards away. If you walk down to the heart ledge the 2' heart is perpendicular to the direction you are walking, but the smaller heart points in the direction you just traveled - as per the pointed bottom of it.

When you measure the VF, check it with the measurement between the two smaller hearts. Here’s something else you might try. Look at the two smaller heart carvings and run an imaginary line from the point of the heart to the middle of the lobes. This will give you two directions from the large heart. Check these two directions and look for two more carved hearts. If you find the small heart, it might be about the size of your hand and placed in the ground in such a way that it can’t be easily moved. So what you are looking for is a triangle with hearts at each corner.

 

[sdcfia]

I would take GPS waypoints on the carvings and other things you feel are important. Sure, the accuracy isn't precise, but if the points are far enough separated, you may find geometric patterns, straight lines, etc, formed by their positions. Even Garmin's free program BaseCamp can be useful. May be a waste of time, but you won't know unless you try.

I've been using a yellow carpenter's lumber marker lately (kinda like a big crayon) to enhance faint or weathered carvings. It seems easier to use than chalk. Sometimes just pouring water on the rock will bring out subtleties too.


Regarding rock shapes. Hearts can fool you because they are so commonly found in nature - seems to be something about the lobes. When your eye is aware, you tend to see them all over the place. Don't get me wrong, I like hearts as an attention getter, but the only one I notice in your pics is that big white one. Wishful thinking spurs you on, but sometimes when you assume, you can make an ass out of u and me. Here's a heart which had chisel marks on it to form the lobes. Man did it for sure.


Regarding carvings, the more I looked at the Mercury symbol, the more I changed my mind and now wonder if it isn't a human with his arms out and his head cocked to the left. The circles are still interesting.

 

[Alpha137]

I would take GPS waypoints on the carvings and other things you feel are important. Sure, the accuracy isn't precise, but if the points are far enough separated, you may find geometric patterns, straight lines, etc, formed by their positions. Even Garmin's free program BaseCamp can be useful. May be a waste of time, but you won't know unless you try.

I've been using a yellow carpenter's lumber marker lately (kinda like a big crayon) to enhance faint or weathered carvings. It seems easier to use than chalk. Sometimes just pouring water on the rock will bring out subtleties too.
View attachment 1615176

Regarding rock shapes. Hearts can fool you because they are so commonly found in nature - seems to be something about the lobes. When your eye is aware, you tend to see them all over the place. Don't get me wrong, I like hearts as an attention getter, but the only one I notice in your pics is that big white one. Wishful thinking spurs you on, but sometimes when you assume, you can make an ass out of u and me. Here's a heart which had chisel marks on it to form the lobes. Man did it for sure.
View attachment 1615182

Regarding carvings, the more I looked at the Mercury symbol, the more I changed my mind and now wonder if it isn't a human with his arms out and his head cocked to the left. The circles are still interesting.
View attachment 1615184

I disagree about the mercury type symbol, although I did consider this early on when inspecting it. I see what you are saying if you rotate it upside down. The problem is it is upside down compared to all the other symbols carved on the rock panels, it would be the only one with that orientation. Of course that could be the case, but it doesn't fit with the rest if it is unless it is depicting a guy hung upside down. As far as the heart goes, that is the largest one of 4. Two others are carved into the surface of it and the carved stones are also setting on the base of it. Could it all be coincidence? Sure, mother nature does some strange things, but I don't think it was natural processes at this point - that was my initial thought though. As to the picture I posted, just to the left of where I was standing to take the picture is a turtle sitting about 3' away. The old trail and markers led me straight to it. The picture is taken looking through a possible vault shaped passage. I was standing looking between the gap in the rocks (vault) looking straight down.

 

[Alpha137]

I like the idea of the yellow marking pen! As soon as it isn't 110 degrees out there I will try it.

 

[sdcfia]

If I were younger, stronger and had a straighter back, I'd be uncovering that pile of rubble in front of the heart in Post #35 - wondering if was backfill. Sometimes we seriously overthink things until the point where we're brain-paralyzed and run in circles.

Once upon a time I decided to dig under a heart I found (middle photo, Post #37). Here's what I found:

Nothing! Ha ha ... Oh well, nothing ventured, nothing gained.