Desert markers and symbols

[Alpha137]

I have found some interesting markers and symbols. I want to share some and get opinions on them - just symbols and petroglyphs in this post because I have lots of pictures and limited time today. These are not all the symbols petroglyphs out there. In this area there are a mixture of Native American petroglyphs, European symbols (Spanish I believe), cowboy graffiti, and modern graffiti. Some of them are old. Others are obviously newer, but the desert varnish is inconsistent and can be confusing. In one picture there is an obvious alchemical symbol for mercury, but it does have some extra parts and possible indicators for mining. There is also a possible sword (pointing a direction) in one petroglyph, a map, possible mine or shaft symbols on several panels, a rune type picture that looks like a smelter, and the symbol (VF) for aqua fortis. So the photos in this post seemed to show a story or share information about something in another area. Using these signs and symbols I pieced together a direction to follow and there was a trail, which led me to a canyon with rock markers, a turtle and heart carvings and a heart formation, and a possible vault/entry way into a possible mining yard or area. I am a skeptical person and I am still trying to come to terms with what I have found and the possibility that there is something significant in this area. Many of the markers could be nothing more than interesting rock formations, or happenstance. Or there could have been something here and now it is gone.

I do believe that people often fall into the trap of matrixing or pareidolia where the brain tries to find logical patterns in random and chaotic illogical patterns - something out of nothing. And that is possible with some of the things I have found, but I am also certain that some of the markers, and the obvious symbols, out here are significant and purposeful. The canyon I found is remote, but the petroglyphs are in an area where people do visit, rarely, at times. BTW, I am not digging and breaking laws or disturbing Native American artifacts. This area covers private and public land. I just want to share what I have found and piece together a story.

 

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[Carl-NC]

I do believe that people often fall into the trap of matrixing or pareidolia where the brain tries to find logical patterns in random and chaotic illogical patterns - something out of nothing.

Yeah, there's a heckuva lotta that going on around here. To the point of being downright silly. But it sounds like you're primed to go in that direction as well, what with turtles and hearts appearing. Seems like turtles and hearts are everywhere.

Your glyphs are interesting, and the lower ones appear to be pretty ancient. Most likely just stone-age art. Mercury symbol? Maybe. Gold symbols? Maybe. I'd take better photos and get them to someone who really knows that kind of stuff. I'm talking about a real anthropologist at a real university. Asking questions in this forum is like asking about Santa Claus in a kindergarten classroom; all the answers you get will be 100% fantasy-land.

 

[elh]

Alpha, looks like picture # 4 is showing a dead man and animal since they are upside down. If you do not already have the book by
'' LaVan Martineau '' -- '' The Rocks Begin To speak '' it would probably help you interpret many of the carvings and separate the Indian
pictures from the white man.
The book above has 193 pages plus four full pages of index.
The snake in your first picture is my favorite. If the ''W'' on his tail is not graffiti it will speak of a large treasure, BUT, as you know if it is treasure,
the folks that carved it was making sure they could come back later and find it.
Good luck
elh

 

[elh]

Yeah, there's a heckuva lotta that going on around here. To the point of being downright silly. But it sounds like you're primed to go in that direction as well, what with turtles and hearts appearing. Seems like turtles and hearts are everywhere.

Your glyphs are interesting, and the lower ones appear to be pretty ancient. Most likely just stone-age art. Mercury symbol? Maybe. Gold symbols? Maybe. I'd take better photos and get them to someone who really knows that kind of stuff. I'm talking about a real anthropologist at a real university. Asking questions in this forum is like asking about Santa Claus in a kindergarten classroom; all the answers you get will be 100% fantasy-land.

But Carl, ain't it a lot of fun ? Santa clawz too.

 

[Alpha137]

Yeah, there's a heckuva lotta that going on around here. To the point of being downright silly. But it sounds like you're primed to go in that direction as well, what with turtles and hearts appearing. Seems like turtles and hearts are everywhere.

Your glyphs are interesting, and the lower ones appear to be pretty ancient. Most likely just stone-age art. Mercury symbol? Maybe. Gold symbols? Maybe. I'd take better photos and get them to someone who really knows that kind of stuff. I'm talking about a real anthropologist at a real university. Asking questions in this forum is like asking about Santa Claus in a kindergarten classroom; all the answers you get will be 100% fantasy-land.

There is for sure a lot going on. Also, this is only a portion of the glyphs, but maybe the most interesting. I agree, an anthropologist is a good idea. The rock I call map rock lines up with a ridge that is inline with possible dagger pointing to the ridge. After following the ridge I ended up in the canyon with the markers I mentioned in my first post. Anyway, good advice. That is what I am looking for, ideas and insight with more experience. I have read lots and lots about this stuff, but a lot of info out there is fantasy land stuff. Of course the myths, legends, and possibilities is all part of the fun.

Edit Note: I have been prospecting out in this area for years and so it is not a stretch to think there have been prospectors out there in the past. Also, a significant part of the Spanish trail is very close. As for the hearts, turtles, etc.. they are there, I am just not sure they mean what some claim that they mean.

 

[Alpha137]

Alpha, looks like picture # 4 is showing a dead man and animal since they are upside down. If you do not already have the book by
'' LaVan Martineau '' -- '' The Rocks Begin To speak '' it would probably help you interpret many of the carvings and separate the Indian
pictures from the white man.
The book above has 193 pages plus four full pages of index.
The snake in your first picture is my favorite. If the ''W'' on his tail is not graffiti it will speak of a large treasure, BUT, as you know if it is treasure,
the folks that carved it was making sure they could come back later and find it.
Good luck
elh

I will check out the book you mentioned, thank you, and if anyone is interested I will post more stuff. I do plan to post the markers also.

 

[weekender]

I will check out the book you mentioned, thank you, and if anyone is interested I will post more stuff. I do plan to post the markers also.

elh is right, that is a good read
And, yes please post more
-Weekender

 

[sdcfia]

Yeah, there's a heckuva lotta that going on around here. To the point of being downright silly. But it sounds like you're primed to go in that direction as well, what with turtles and hearts appearing. Seems like turtles and hearts are everywhere.

Your glyphs are interesting, and the lower ones appear to be pretty ancient. Most likely just stone-age art. Mercury symbol? Maybe. Gold symbols? Maybe. I'd take better photos and get them to someone who really knows that kind of stuff. I'm talking about a real anthropologist at a real university. Asking questions in this forum is like asking about Santa Claus in a kindergarten classroom; all the answers you get will be 100% fantasy-land.

You won't find much of a welcome here with those kinds of comments, even though you are absolutely correct. However, one caveat: asking "professionals" about petroglyphs could well be a fool's errand too. Remember, the only folks who know for sure what these things mean are those who carved them.

Alpha 137: your "Mercury-style" carving rock is the most interesting in your group by far.

 

[Carl-NC]

You won't find much of a welcome here with those kinds of comments, even though you are absolutely correct. However, one caveat: asking "professionals" about petroglyphs could well be a fool's errand too. Remember, the only folks who know for sure what these things mean are those who carved them.

Alpha's pics are the kinds markers that are truly interesting and worth discussing. Unfortunately, this forum is heavily polluted with delusional photos of ordinary rocks by people pretending they are surrounded by buried treasures. Even in the pollution threads there is, every once in a blue moon, an interesting photo of the non-delusional variety, but it tends to get buried under all the pollution. It's impossible to have a serious discussion about the interesting stuff with people who live in a world of make-believe.

Hopefully Alpha will continue to post more Good Stuff. I'm interested. An expert in rock art might be able to distinguish the pre-Columbian stuff, which would have no relation to treasure hunting, and might also be able to identify other markings in terms of probable age; i.e. modern vs very old. Often, though, this requires standing in front of the rock itself. Photos aren't good enough. Once you know what symbols to focus on, interpretation is a completely different matter.

 

[aarthrj3811]

My theory is that some of the markers are real and some of them have been moved or added to by people who tried to find the treasure and failed...Art

 

[Alpha137]

Alpha's pics are the kinds markers that are truly interesting and worth discussing. Unfortunately, this forum is heavily polluted with delusional photos of ordinary rocks by people pretending they are surrounded by buried treasures. Even in the pollution threads there is, every once in a blue moon, an interesting photo of the non-delusional variety, but it tends to get buried under all the pollution. It's impossible to have a serious discussion about the interesting stuff with people who live in a world of make-believe.

Hopefully Alpha will continue to post more Good Stuff. I'm interested. An expert in rock art might be able to distinguish the pre-Columbian stuff, which would have no relation to treasure hunting, and might also be able to identify other markings in terms of probable age; i.e. modern vs very old. Often, though, this requires standing in front of the rock itself. Photos aren't good enough. Once you know what symbols to focus on, interpretation is a completely different matter.

Thank you, I will post more later today. Look closely at the rock with all the squiggly lines and such also - I call it the map rock for the lack of a true understanding of it. Inferring from it I found a trail with stacked stone markers and a stone circle overlook, which I do not believe were Native American, that took me to a canyon with some interesting features. On the way into the canyon there is a small mining spot where something was removed. Further down from that is the canyon and what appears to be a symbolic vault entrance with more markers. On the way to the canyon there is also a myriad of possible carvings. These natural formations (I am assuming here) are where the matrixing comes into play in my mind, but a few could very well be carved also. It is hard to tell because the area is so rocky that chips blend in the the gravely rocky desert geology and landscape, especially if any amount of time has passed. Wind and storms swiftly transform shallow surface features in any exposed area - most of it is exposed.

I also agree with the mercury type symbol being most interesting. I would be a very rare happenstance for Native Americans to duplicate it randomly.

 

[Alpha137]

You won't find much of a welcome here with those kinds of comments, even though you are absolutely correct. However, one caveat: asking "professionals" about petroglyphs could well be a fool's errand too. Remember, the only folks who know for sure what these things mean are those who carved them.

Alpha 137: your "Mercury-style" carving rock is the most interesting in your group by far.

I didn't take it personal, but maybe it was directed at past stuff or something. After my initial response about professionals being a good idea I thought more about it and I agree with you. Knowing quite a few academics myself it is hard to get them out of their learned mindset sometimes. The right anthropologist or archeologist could help, but finding the right one is another story. I read one time about the Spanish basically using symbols and markers as way points like we use today for roads, as commonly known signs for followers and retrievers. Along with that idea comes the possibility for triangulation to find mines and caches. It seems logical at least. Why would expeditions make it impossible to retrieve or find a location? Yes, they wouldn't want others to find stuff, but they needed a simple system to either get back themselves, or for other Spanish expeditions to find the places of significance. Any thoughts on that? It is just speculation on my part.

 

[mdog]

The vf in your first pic, you say it means aqua fortis, what does that mean and how do you know that’s what it stands for?

 

[Alpha137]

The vf in your first pic, you say it means aqua fortis, what does that mean and how do you know that’s what it stands for?

It is an alchemical symbol for nitric acid and is used to dissolve metals like silver. It will not dissolve gold, but it will separate silver from other metals including gold.. Aqua regia is used to dissolve gold. The VF symbol on the rock is a bit strange for sure. But it is usually written as a closed upside triangle with an F attached to the right side. I have found references that look like that rock carving though. You can find it in alchemy books. Look for old ones.

Note on posting more pictures. I realized that I may have jumped the gun on the pictures I posted as far as keeping the integrity of actual site as anonymous as possible. In my interest of sharing and getting opinions I didn't check with treasurenet about certain aspects of what info is retrievable for them. When I find out some info in that regard I will post more.

 

[mdog]

It is an alchemical symbol for nitric acid and is used to dissolve metals like silver. It will not dissolve gold, but it will separate silver from other metals including gold.. Aqua regia is used to dissolve gold. The VF symbol on the rock is a bit strange for sure. But it is usually written as a closed upside triangle with an F attached to the right side. I have found references that look like that rock carving though. You can find it in alchemy books. Look for old ones.

Note on posting more pictures. I realized that I may have jumped the gun on the pictures I posted as far as keeping the integrity of actual site as anonymous as possible. In my interest of sharing and getting opinions I didn't check with treasurenet about certain aspects of what info is retrievable for them. When I find out some info in that regard I will post more.

Have you ever seen the symbol carved on a rock before? And why at that spot?

 

[mdog]

Also, did you chalk the vf and are the lines carved deep or just scratches?

 

[sdcfia]

I didn't take it personal, but maybe it was directed at past stuff or something. After my initial response about professionals being a good idea I thought more about it and I agree with you. Knowing quite a few academics myself it is hard to get them out of their learned mindset sometimes. The right anthropologist or archeologist could help, but finding the right one is another story. I read one time about the Spanish basically using symbols and markers as way points like we use today for roads, as commonly known signs for followers and retrievers. Along with that idea comes the possibility for triangulation to find mines and caches. It seems logical at least. Why would expeditions make it impossible to retrieve or find a location? Yes, they wouldn't want others to find stuff, but they needed a simple system to either get back themselves, or for other Spanish expeditions to find the places of significance. Any thoughts on that? It is just speculation on my part.

I would refer you to a previous post I made here on TNet a couple-three years ago that contained a bunch of useful links about Spanish law regarding mining in Mexico, plus some information about who contracted to pay for and organize the expeditions, work the mines, and how the proceeds were to be divided. Unfortunately, now I can't search back far enough in my old posts to find it. Regardless, anyone who's interested enough in the subject can certainly educate himself if he wants true facts. I say this because so many TNet posters have gotten the wrong idea about how the old system worked. It's understandable since so many other posters try to convince us that there are hundreds if not thousands of "Spanish treasure caches" all over America just waiting to be found. First thought then: decide if you want to be real or fantasize.

Thought two: getting back to a site was a problem that the miner had to work out for himself, using his own methods. Carvings, cairns, maps, whatever floated his boat. In today's Southwest, there are very few true "Spanish" mines, IMO. The contractors, who paid for the operations, had so much better value choices to be exploited in Mexico than here. Try to erase from your mind the idea of a "King's Code" for marking mines, ala Kenworthy and others. There was none in use in the Southwest. That's internet fake news.

Most pre-Anglo workings found are Mexican. Most of these were found by Anglos in the 1850s and claimed as their own. And were worked out.

Third thought: your alchemical and VF examples are non-native, meaning somebody probably well-educated carved them for a reason. The rest you can ignore, although a good trick was to hide modern info among native carvings. In your case, I'd focus on that Mercury thing with the circled dots and other two circles. It may be a sort of code urging you along, or just a "Hey look" carving because it's so different from all the rest in the area. Either way, someone presumably did it for a good reason.

Fourth thought: when you post on TNet, or any other forum, the material is in the public domain and anyone can use it. I think also that TNet also has some sort of rights to the content. Check the rules.

 

[mdog]

That was a good post, sdc.

 

[sdcfia]

That was a good post, sdc.

Thanks dog. I wish I could get back to my old posts.

 

[Alpha137]

Have you ever seen the symbol carved on a rock before? And why at that spot?

Good question. Why indeed? Maybe to let others from a follow up expedition know about processes needed, or used in the area? Also, the spot is full of carvings and symbols because it lends itself naturally to it. It is a bunch of flat rocks bunched together and makes for a good area to carve. It is like a whole bunch of individual tablets. Just a guess on my part. An no, I have not personally seen this symbol carved in other rocks.