dedicated to b3y0nd3r : An example of a treasure legend evolution :

[Tom_in_CA]

..... and read old newspapers on treasure stories ....

But ... but ... I read it in the National Enquirer supermarket tabloid. Therefore it MUST be true. Eh ?

 

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[Carl-NC]

If you go to Chronicling America and read old newspapers on treasure stories or lost treasure, you will find several stories that con men made up to entice investors into sinking their money into holes where the perpetrators knew there was no treasure to begin with.

Quite a lot of the treasure stories in the old magazines (True Treasure, Treasure World, etc) were completely fabricated. If they paid 50 bucks for an article in 1968, why would anyone spend weeks researching and writing a true story when, for the same money, you could just make something up, including a fake author name. And that's mostly what happened. Yet lots of people have spent lots of time and lots of money looking for those non-existent treasures.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Quite a lot of the treasure stories in the old magazines (True Treasure, Treasure World, etc) were completely fabricated. If they paid 50 bucks for an article in 1968, why would anyone spend weeks researching and writing a true story when, for the same money, you could just make something up, including a fake author name. And that's mostly what happened. Yet lots of people have spent lots of time and lots of money looking for those non-existent treasures.

A buddy of mine submitted one of those stories, in the mid 1970s, to get the $100... or whatever it was they were paying for accepted article submissions at the time.

You know the old yarns about "lost mines" and "stolen stagecoach loot", blah blah . Eg.: the dying miner drags himself into the wild-west saloon. The lone-survivor of an indian attack. He tells the story of fabulous riches back at his mine, as the curious bar patrons gather around him. He dies of his wounds before being able to reclaim his fortune. And here's the 5 clues to the location of the mine ... Blah blah blah.

It was all built around true factual names, dates, events, places, etc... Throw in a few faded newspaper clippings. Add a drawing of a miner posed next to his burro, etc... We got a good laugh wondering if anyone ever went out looking for it.

 

[franklin]

I read a story by a Civil War Historian about an armor car robbery in Muncie, Indiana. Hell it was so factual and so precise, with a photo of the house where the loot was hidden. I was ready to load up and travel 600 miles to find it. First I sent a letter to newspapers in the surrounding towns. The letters returned, no such robbery occurred or ever happened. Twenty-five cents for the letters saved me a lot of time, trouble and money. Later, I sent a book to a publisher in North Carolina. They said they would review it and let me know. The very next day they wanted me to pick the book up. A couple months later, the author of the story above stole one of my stories and published it in a treasure magazine under his own name. I could have sued him as I had a copyright on the book before trying to get it published. But I let it go. I still recall his name.

It is the same with Oak Island. There are skimpy stories of how the treasure tale got started. Then there are companies formed and excavations made. As the companies got more desperate to find treasure, they dug more holes, deeper holes and then larger steam shovel holes to depths of 100 feet and about as much or more wider. Nothing found. Now we have multi-million dollar investors coming in and bragging about drilling into wood at angles and pushing a "chapel" vault to the side with a 60 inch bore hole machine. Waste of time and money as there is no documented proof of any treasure ever being buried on Oak Island. Surely if they went through as much trouble as companies claim, flood tunnels, traps to kill searchers, they would have left records somewhere as to how to find the treasures and their contents. But all we hear is boys out searching on an Island finding a depression in the ground. There are depressions all over Nova Scotia and even on Oak Island. Keep digging until they get to Montreal, maybe they will find something worth while.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... The letters returned, no such robbery occurred or ever happened. Twenty-five cents for the letters saved me a lot of time, trouble and money.....

Tsk tsk. But don't you know what that means ? The lack of any historical LEO record of such-a-robbery having ever occurred, ONLY means that A) they weren't telling you the truth, in order to be able to retrieve the treasure for themselves, B) the records were "scrubbed" from those old LEO court records, to foil would-be-future treasure hunters.

At NO TIME does that evidence you gathered mean: "no treasure".

... Waste of time and money as there is no documented proof of any treasure ever being buried on Oak Island. ....

No "documented proof" ? Surely you jest. We have EXCELLENT "documented proof": The legend itself.

Isn't circular proofs wonderful ? They are bullet-proof and can never be dis-proven. Because you START with the premise that they are true. And if anyone asks for "proof" of that, you merely point them back to the legend. In a wonderful vicious circle.

 

[Cal_Cobra]

 

[franklin]

Quite a lot of the treasure stories in the old magazines (True Treasure, Treasure World, etc) were completely fabricated. If they paid 50 bucks for an article in 1968, why would anyone spend weeks researching and writing a true story when, for the same money, you could just make something up, including a fake author name. And that's mostly what happened. Yet lots of people have spent lots of time and lots of money looking for those non-existent treasures.

All the stories I wrote were true and researched. I tried to bring the fake stories into the open but the editors like fake stories and kept publishing them even after research proved the stories never happened. Yes a lot made up stories for $50 or $60 and some even stole stories and sold them as their own. That is where researching comes in handy. I only search for the treasures I can verify as real. I work on a lot of stories to prove them right or wrong but I do not search for them until I can verify them as a real treasure to hunt. Some of the stories I wrote I knew more than I told but why should you give away a treasure for $50 or $60.

 

[Singlestack Wonder]

Somethings to consider:

1. We may never know if the three men, Daniel, Anthony, and John, discovered a tackle hanging from a tree or even a depression. We can know for certain that whatever they saw in the money pit area took hold of all three of them and changed the course of their lives.
2. There is no documented remnants of wooden platforms every ten feet, only stories about the dig. What we do know beyond a shadow of a doubt is that they were motivated to keep digging. If there was no flagstone, no platforms, no loose dirt and pick-ax marks along the walls of the pit, do you think they would have kept digging for a hundred feet? Just ask yourself the question, and let me remind you that these men were not retired or bored. They had families to feed and a lot of other hard work to be doing.
3. Oak Island nuts say that enough people saw the inscribed stone that it may have been real, but even without the proof of the strange code, we have the sweat-equity of a second 100 foot hole. These three men found something that motivated them to overcome the first flood and dig a second hole and eventually continue on after a second flooding. Even if we don't have proof of what it was, we know that it was something very real.
4. Some Acorns say that the treasure was found during this first dig. If that were the case, I seriously doubt Anthony and John would have spent there later years still digging. I just don't think that digging deep, vertical holes for no reason is any fun.
5. Some people say that the dig was just a hoax. The life he led portrays Daniel dying with the elusive treasure on his mind. Why do I think that he never gave up believing? I will tell you why, because he passed down enough information to keep his descendants on the quest. His Will and Testament left his property on Oak Island to his sons and daughters. No one would perpetrate a plan to follow the family like a curse, Daniel must have believed in this treasure-hunt with all his heart. The obsession Daniel began, did not stop with his children, each generation was also driven to send their children to search and so on down the line for 200 years.
   We may never know what Daniel found, or what information he discovered, but we can clearly see what he did with it. He passed down what he thought was valuable. Ask yourself, is there a father or grandfather that would try to mislead his entire family? By the lives led and actions of McGinnis men from 1795-1983, I say that it is obvious that Daniel found something very compelling on Oak Island.

The McGinnis brothers stayed out too late one evening (drinking, womanizing, ?) and needed a cover story to tell their parents for not coming home on time.....thus the fib that turned int the hoax of oak island.....

 

[n2mini]

The McGinnis brothers stayed out too late one evening (drinking, womanizing, ?) and needed a cover story to tell their parents for not coming home on time.....thus the fib that turned int the hoax of oak island.....

and here you are again... Don't you have anything better to do then just post random $%^& in these threads.. You don't believe in the story of treasure, we get it, so why do you stay in this Forum?

 

[lokiblossom]

and here you are again... Don't you have anything better to do then just post random $%^& in these threads.. You don't believe in the story of treasure, we get it, so why do you stay in this Forum?

Take a half hour and read Mr. Wonder's old posts.

Cheers, Loki

 

[n2mini]

Take a half hour and read Mr. Wonder's old posts.

Cheers, Loki

It would take way more then 30 minutes to re-read all his misc. posts across every thread topic and would drive me crazy in the process... He and a couple of others have made this forum no fun to participate in much... So I don't as much as I used to...

 

[Tom_in_CA]

All the stories I wrote were true and researched. ..... I only search for the treasures I can verify as real. I work on a lot of stories to prove them right or wrong but I do not search for them until I can verify them as a real treasure to hunt. ....

But what is your criteria for "knowing" there is a real treasure to hunt for ? Ie.: "real" or "not real" ? Because if it's simply a matter of researching to verify the names, dates, events surrounding a story, that does NOT necessarily mean there's any treasure. After all: Every good treasure yarn is built around real names, dates, events. But if there's no treasure, then all the 99% that is "true" in the story, doesn't do anyone any good. Right ?

So how do/did you differentiate on when a real treasure was there, versus just a camp-fire legend yarn ? If it's because "the story said so", then how is that proof ? That's merely pointing at the story, to prove the story. Circular. So what outside evidences were your criteria for deciding ?

If it was simply "someone got mysteriously wealthy" or "someone died with unaccounted for wealth" : You do understand that even these are just simply "the story". And even if you can get outside verification of such things, you realize it still doesn't necessarily mean "treasure", right ? We might *think* someone "never returned" before their un-timely death. But how do you/we know ? Or we may THINK that someone's sudden "unexplained wealth" meant they were on a treasure's ice-berg tip. When instead they simply made $$ via regular business transactions .

So what is your criteria ? Beyond the story itself, and anecdotal things that might have more plausible explanations ?

 

[Robert_Dazzler]

Tom, if we all use your logic and reasoning, you literally have to already have a "treasure" in your hands for you to have enough evidence to even start looking so why are you even involved in such a hobby/forum? Do you metal detect? If so, why? You could never ever prove that there is something left behind by someone anywhere you look until you actually find it, so why even look, right? This forum has more drama and bickering between grumpy old men than the actual show will ever have. Maybe history is missing out on the real money making reality show? They could call it..."The curse of treasure forum: who is really right?!?!?"

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Thank you Mr. Dazzler for your insightful post.

But, since this is your first post, you might want to be careful as "grumpy old men" may be taken as an insult to members.

Since I'm neither old nor grumpy I feel no slight; and you are correct that this forum has much more educational and entertainment value than the show itself. A lot more. But I doubt the History Channel would be interested because it exists and lacks an obnoxious narrator to restate every post.

 

[Robert_Dazzler]

I would say that if my grumpy old men comment offends anyone, then it probably fits them just fine

 

[Robot]

Hi...Robert...Welcome To The Show!

I would say that if my grumpy old men comment offends anyone, then it probably fits them just fine

Don't let any Grumpy Old Men...Fool You!

 

[cachenut]

DON'T mess with Grumpy Old Men. We all had a lot of bad things done to us in our lives and we now know exactly how to do it to you. Be wary of grumpy old men. You were warned!

 

[b3y0nd3r]

The McGinnis brothers stayed out too late one evening (drinking, womanizing, ?) and needed a cover story to tell their parents for not coming home on time.....thus the fib that turned int the hoax of oak island.....

Who are they? Get your facts straight son.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Tom, if we all use your logic and reasoning, you literally have to already have a "treasure" in your hands for you to have enough evidence to even start looking so why are you even involved in such a hobby/forum? Do you metal detect? If so, why? You could never ever prove that there is something left behind by someone anywhere you look until you actually find it, so why even look, right? This forum has more drama and bickering between grumpy old men than the actual show will ever have. Maybe history is missing out on the real money making reality show? They could call it..."The curse of treasure forum: who is really right?!?!?"

Hey there Robert, welcome to T'net !

To answer your question: An bit of skepticism actually HELPS to find goodies. Not hinders. Why ? Because it keeps you from chasing stories where more plausible explanations exist. And where ..... once you realize the "treasure fever telephone game psychology", you can see to ferret that out.

I remember, for example, when I started this hobby in the mid 1970s to early 1980s : trying all sorts of lame md'ing sites in our area. That were supposed to have been yesteryear picnic sites, or swim spots on the river here, etc.... And one by one, having the "aha moments" , that ....... yes , perhaps the introduction of the freeway viaduct over the river at that point screwed things up. Or perhaps when they built the shopping mall over the stage stop site, that perhaps detecting the planter boxes in the parking lot was *not* going to produce old coins. Ie.: school of hard knocks.

And as time goes on, and I start to "poo-poo" some research out-the-starting gate (when I see such warning signs), then it actually INCREASES finds. Not decreases. Now I'm going on leads that can not be chalked up to telephone game ghost-story legends. Or picnic / camp/ stage stops that have not been hammered to death by yesteryear hunters, or have a shopping mall built over them.

Just got a 1778 Spanish One reale yesterday. And it was/is a function of being in the right-place at the right-time. Skepticism can pay off, to hone down your time to the most-likely-hunt spots.