CW artillary shells???

[BenVa68]

I dug these today at a new spot near a Civil war fort which i wont name to keep the location private but i dug both of them near each other and they were deep. I also dug an Enfield and several roundballs. They resemble the top part of a Hotchkiss shell to me but im not sure. I hope so. These would be my first shells of any type . Can anyone help identify them? I know they are in rough shape but i havent had a chance to clean them yet and i was excited.

 

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[Charlie P. (NY)]

I am guessing post Civil War (Hotchkiss Gun - after 1877) for the first half dozen images but very interesting none the less.

 

[BenVa68]

I am guessing post Civil War (Hotchkiss Gun - after 1877) for the first half dozen images but very interesting none the less.

I am not very familiar with CW shells because ive never dug any before. Other than fragments. I just looked in one of my books and they resembled a Hotchkiss to me. The fort is no longer there. This location has been occupied since the 1600s and near a supply depot that was used during the revolutionary war and paticulary during the civil war. Currently its just a section of woods behind a smal public park.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

The artillery fuzes in the shell fragments you dug appear to be from the Spanish-American war era to World War One era. I'm 100% certain they are not from the civil war era. Please clean all the crud off of them to see if there are any markings on them, and if so, tell us what the markings say.

For what it's worth to know:
Here in the Richmond VA area, we dig World War One era artillery fuzes (such as the "marked" Scovill Model-1907 timefuze) along the banks of the James River, from training/practice firing by artillery crews before they were sent overseas to participate in that war.

 

[NOLA_Ken]

As CannonballGuy said, they should be marked under all the corrosion which will help positively ID them, but looking at them, they are percussion type fuses. These were designed to be activated by impact and either detonate the shell immediately or after a short delay depending on the type. Age will be hard to determine without seeing the markings since these could be late 1800's all the way to WW2 era, but if you know the history of the site where you found them and know the latest timeframe that artillery would have been in use there you can narrow it down a bit

 

[BenVa68]

The artillery fuzes in the shell fragments you dug appear to be from the Spanish-American war era to World War One era. I'm 100% certain they are not from the civil war era. Please clean all the crud off of them to see if there are any markings on them, and if so, tell us what the markings say.

For what it's worth to know:
Here in the Richmond VA area, we dig World War One era artillery fuzes (such as the "marked" Scovill Model-1907 timefuze) along the banks of the James River, from training/practice firing by artillery crews before they were sent overseas to participate in that war.

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my post. I will clean them up better tonight and post more pictures. I don't think electrolysis is going to work very well on these. All I did yesterday was rinse them off a little. They were not dug near the James but they were dug about a half mile off the Appomattox river. We dug a cannonball not too far from this location about a week ago too. I also dug a 1822 large cent. No colonial relics yet but there was a small town in the area early to mid 1600s.

 

[BenVa68]

As CannonballGuy said, they should be marked under all the corrosion which will help positively ID them, but looking at them, they are percussion type fuses. These were designed to be activated by impact and either detonate the shell immediately or after a short delay depending on the type. Age will be hard to determine without seeing the markings since these could be late 1800's all the way to WW2 era, but if you know the history of the site where you found them and know the latest timeframe that artillery would have been in use there you can narrow it down a bit

The only time Artillery would have been been used at this location would be during the Civil War. But Cannonball guy says it's definitely not Civil War and I know he is the go to guy for these types of things so it is very strange that they were there. If there are any markings on them I will find them.

 

[DCMatt]

Ben - Keep in mind that lots and lots and LOTS of military maneuvers were done on and around Civil War battlefields before they became protected areas.



US Marines on the Gettysburg battlefield - 1922.

 

[BenVa68]

Ben - Keep in mind that lots and lots and LOTS of military maneuvers were done on and around Civil War battlefields before they became protected areas.

View attachment 1722199

US Marines on the Gettysburg battlefield - 1922.

I believe it has been solved. I showed them to someone and they were familiar with the area where i found them. He said the military did training exercises during WW2 and possibly during WW1 in that area. So who knows what I might find there. Anything from the revolutionary war to WW2. He believes they are the nose from WW2 shells but i'll have to clean them up better to be sure.

 

[BenVa68]

After a couple hours in vinegar

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Thank you for cleaning your "mystery" artillery fuzes enough to reveal the identifying markings stamped into the brass. The new photos confirm my previous response to you about them. They are definitely World War One era Scovill (USA-manufactured) 21-second Model-1907 timefuzes. (The first new photo shows the time-markings on the fuze's lower brass ring, going from 1 through 21.)

That specific type of artillery fuze was made for use in Shrapnel shells, causing the shell to burst in the air above enemy troops, scattering its 200 (or more) lead antipersonnel balls among the enemy with deadly effect.

The markings on your time-fuze's lower ring represent seconds of burning-time. That ring could be rotated (and then locked down) to set the desired number of seconds of flight-time before the shell exploded. The artillery gunner would estimate the range from his cannon to the enemy troops, and set the time-marked ring's orientation to make the fuze burn for (let's say) 16-&-1/2 seconds before it detonated the shell's internal powder charge.

 

[BenVa68]

Thank you for cleaning your "mystery" artillery fuzes enough to reveal the identifying markings stamped into the brass. The new photos confirm my previous response to you about them. They are definitely World War One era (US) Scovill 21-second Model-1907 timefuzes. (The first new photo shows the time-markings on the fuze's lower brass ring, going from 1 through 21.)

That specific type of artillery fuze made for use in Shrapnel shells, causing the shell to burst in the air above enemy troops, scattering its 200 (or more) lead antipersonnel balls among the enemy with deadly effect.

The markings on your time-fuze's lower ring represent seconds of burning-time. That ring could be rotated (and then locked down) to set the desired number of seconds of flight-time before the shell exploded. The artillery gunner would estimate the range from his cannon to the enemy troops, and set the time-marked ring's orientation to make the fuze burn for (let's say) 16-&-1/2 seconds before it detonated the shell's internal powder charge.

Thank you for the help. And your explanation of its use is interesting because i also dug several roundballs that i thought were Civil War.but they only measured around .47 which i thought was strange.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

You're welcome, Ben. The .47"-diamter lead balls you found are definitely from the WW1-era Shrapnel shells whose time-fuzes you found. See the photos below, which shows a "cutaway" view of one of that type of WW1 shells.

 

[tennessee digger]

We are very blessed to have Pete (TheCannonballGuy) on this web site. His knowledge is so helpful to so many people. Thanks, as always man.

 

[BenVa68]

We are very blessed to have Pete (TheCannonballGuy) on this web site. His knowledge is so helpful to so many people. Thanks, as always man.

I agree completely