Curious: Oldest dated artifact known. Book, coin or any item?

[Limitool]

Don't ask me WHY.... but today I was wondering what is the oldest dated item known to mankind...? I don't care what it is. I'm curious when someone or something was first stamped or signed with a date. And if you say something before BC how did anyone know to do this you believe?

What's the earliest dated coin in the world? If BC.... how?
What's the earliest dated book in the world? I see May 11, 868 AD but when did mankind start a dating system? Any why was Jesus Christ's death used as a "zero"..? Maybe I'm wrong with my rational but I'd like to learn.

Hopefully a few will chime in with some insight on mankind's dating system.

 

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[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Don't ask me WHY.... but today I was wondering what is the oldest dated item known to mankind...? I don't care what it is. I'm curious when someone or something was first stamped or signed with a date. And if you say something before BC how did anyone know to do this you believe?

What's the earliest dated coin in the world? If BC.... how?
What's the earliest dated book in the world? I see May 11, 868 AD but when did mankind start a dating system? Any why was Jesus Christ's death used as a "zero"..? Maybe I'm wrong with my rational but I'd like to learn.

Hopefully a few will chime in with some insight on mankind's dating system.

Has to be written? You can't accept science? Like radio carbon, isotopes and such? Not all artifacts are stamp dated, and stamped with a date is not any requirement to be an artifact?


But, and there is always a but, if you need a written reference any of the early writings that reference a historical event should work?

 

[DizzyDigger]

What's the earliest dated book in the world?

Depends on what you mean by "book". There were copies of scrolls found that go way back in time. Google told me this:

"The Diamond Sutra, also known as the ‘Diamond Cutter Sutra’ or ‘Vajracchedika Prajnaparamita Sutra,’ is a remarkable Buddhist text and is considered the world's oldest printed book."

 

[Sandog]

Interesting questions. And as I understand it you are asking about those items bearing an an actual date applied at the time of their creation, is that correct?

 

[ConceptualizedNetherlandr]

Interesting questions. And as I understand it you are asking about those items bearing an an actual date applied at the time of their creation, is that correct?

You have honed a point. I ask OP about if then contemporary dates matter?

 

[pepperj]

I think I have 3 or 4 BC coins
My 50 BC Gold Stater.

Here's my 49-44 BC Roman silver

 

[EnvoyToTheMolePeople]

Don't ask me WHY.... but today I was wondering what is the oldest dated item known to mankind...? I don't care what it is. I'm curious when someone or something was first stamped or signed with a date. And if you say something before BC how did anyone know to do this you believe?

What's the earliest dated coin in the world? If BC.... how?
What's the earliest dated book in the world? I see May 11, 868 AD but when did mankind start a dating system? Any why was Jesus Christ's death used as a "zero"..? Maybe I'm wrong with my rational but I'd like to learn.

Hopefully a few will chime in with some insight on mankind's dating system.

It sounds like your question is sort of twofold. The question I feel most qualified to answer is why do we use Christ's death as zero. The short answer is that we don't. The long answer is that Dionysius Exiguus, a monk living in the 500s, came up with the idea to use a slightly less pagan dating system, and he used a calculated date for Christ's birth as AD 1 (technically AD should come before the year number, and BC goes after). AD is short for Anno Domini, which is Latin for "in the year of our Lord", and BC is short for Before Christ. Now unfortunately, Exiguss calculated Christ's birth year incorrectly as what we now call AD 1. Christ was actually born sometime between 6 and 4 BC. This is part of the reason many modern scholars use BCE (before Common Era) and CE (Common Era), because it is odd to say that Christ was born 4-6 years Before Christ. Before all this, typically you would see dating based on an astronomical calendar or relative to whoever was ruling in a particular place at a particular time. So you might see "In the 5th year of the reign of Ramses II" for example.

So the oldest existing object to have a particular AD date on it would probably be from the 6th century or so. Of course, even though that dating system existed in the 6th century, it wasn't popularized until the 9th century.

Now the oldest object which can be translated into a specific year is trickier to answer. Most likely it would be a text or object which references the occurrence of a specific astronomical event. Astronomical events are much easier to predict, or date retroactively, than human events. For example, the Merneptah Stele in Egypt mentions an eclipse which occurred on October 30th 1207 BC. So this Stele was probably created in that same year or shortly after.

There is also dendrochonology, which involves looking at particulars of plant matter in order to determine dates. For instance, I recall reading about a piece of wood in a viking grave that contained evidence of a volcanic eruption which occurred on a specific date in the 10th century AD. The ash from the eruption had ebedded itself in the tree bark as the tree grew. Then the tree was chopped down and the wood was used in a burial. When the wood was discovered by archeologists, they were able to align the presense of the particular kind of sediment in the wood with a known volcanic eruption from the time period. Human artifacts made of wood have been found which date to be well over 10k years old, with some supposedly over 100000 years old. Some of those arifacts could potentially be dated to specific years based on similar methods.

So the answer to your question depends on what you mean by dated. The answer could be 1000 years ago, or 100000 years ago.
Hope that's useful in some way.

 

[Red-Coat]

Adding to what @EnvoyToTheMolePeople and others have said…

By their very nature, dating systems using a ‘numerical’ date need a starting point as a reference for counting and are relative to that reference. So, for our current Western system we use the birth of Christ as the start point. You asked why that start point was designated as “zero” but in fact it isn’t. There is no “year zero” and the year following 1 BC is actually designated AD 1

The starting reference point for Anno Domini (the year of our Lord) uses the traditionally reckoned year of his birth which the Gospels only give us by reference to other events. There are two main clues: one in reference to the reign of King Herod; the other in reference to the beginning of Christ's preaching in the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar and subtraction of his stated age of about 30 years. Retrospectively, modern scholars believe the indicated year of birth would either be between 6 BC and 4 BC or around 2 BC depending on which biblical/historical evidence one uses (and for sure not on 25th December).

Contemporary events in the Roman world would have used the Julian Calendar established by Julius Caesar in 46 BC. Before that, their calendars used the foundation of Rome in 753 BC and the rule of King Romulus as the start point.

Any precise historical dates reckoned from our modern calendar also need to take account of the fact that we switched from the Julian calendar to the Gregorian calendar in 1582 following recalculation of the average solar year. The date was advanced by ten days such that, in 1582, Thursday 4th October was followed by Friday 15th October.

Calendars in other cultures and civilisations take different starting points derived from historical events, celestial events, birth or reigns of rulers/leaders and such. So, for example, our current year of 2025 would be:

7533/4 on the Byzantine calendar (starting from the creation era of Constantinople)
6775 on the Assyrian calendar (starting from the calming of the Great Flood)
5785/6 on the Hebrew calendar (starting from Old Testament creation of the world)
4722/3 or 4515 on the Chinese calendar (based on solar, lunar and other cycles)
1446/7 on the Islamic calendar (starting from Muhammad’s migration to Medina)

Truly ancient artefacts are not usually dated as such and we rely on context or stratigraphy, Marine Isotope Stages, Radiometrics, Thermoluminescence and other techniques.

The Chinese ‘Diamond Sutra’ is indeed the oldest book carrying a physical date, equivalent to 868 BC. However, the Egyptian ‘Prisse Papyrus’ dates to c.1800 BC based on its reference to the 27th year of Khufu’s reign. There are older texts, at least as far back as 3,500 BC, but they aren’t directly dated.

The oldest coin known to have a physical date is probably a Samian Silver Tetradrachm struck in Zankle (modern-day Messina) in Sicily. It carries the letter ‘A’ for ‘year one’ of their calendar, equivalent to 494 BC.

Just for interest, the white flecks in this slice from a carbonaceous chondrite meteorite in my collection are the oldest things I have that can be seen with the naked eye.

They’re called calcium–aluminium-rich inclusions (CAIs) and are the first materials known to have existed in a solidified state as our solar system was being formed. For the four CAIs that have been dated using the Pb-Pb chronometer, the mean age was determined as 4567.30 ± 0.16 Million years. That’s consistent with the commonly accepted birth of our Solar System around 4.6 billion years ago.

 

[TORRERO]

Has to be written? You can't accept science? Like radio carbon, isotopes and such? Not all artifacts are stamp dated, and stamped with a date is not any requirement to be an artifact?


But, and there is always a but, if you need a written reference any of the early writings that reference a historical event should work?

I don't think he is questioning the authenticity of any given artifact, just questioning when people actually started putting dates on things...

 

[TORRERO]

Don't ask me WHY.... but today I was wondering what is the oldest dated item known to mankind...? I don't care what it is. I'm curious when someone or something was first stamped or signed with a date. And if you say something before BC how did anyone know to do this you believe?

What's the earliest dated coin in the world? If BC.... how?
What's the earliest dated book in the world? I see May 11, 868 AD but when did mankind start a dating system? Any why was Jesus Christ's death used as a "zero"..? Maybe I'm wrong with my rational but I'd like to learn.

Hopefully a few will chime in with some insight on mankind's dating system.

When I was in Spain we dug a lot of old coins but the earliest DATED coins were from around 1599 Vatican coins..

 

[Limitool]

Has to be written? You can't accept science? Like radio carbon, isotopes and such? Not all artifacts are stamp dated, and stamped with a date is not any requirement to be an artifact?


But, and there is always a but, if you need a written reference any of the early writings that reference a historical event should work?

Post #2. Yes I can accept science and do. I realize not all artifacts are stamp dated as 99.9% are not. My interest isn't in artifacts at all or the science dating them. My interest is in.... what is the earliest "hand" dated item known to mankind..? This meaning consciously done. When I look something up and it's dated "BC" is that science doing that or by the human hand...? If physically done by mankind (BC dated) how is that possible is my inquiry?

Again not inquiring about artifacts but just earliest human dated item(s). I'm only addressing 1st comment in this thread now. Now I'll read the rest..... Thanks all.

 

[Limitool]

Depends on what you mean by "book". There were copies of scrolls found that go way back in time. Google told me this:

"The Diamond Sutra, also known as the ‘Diamond Cutter Sutra’ or ‘Vajracchedika Prajnaparamita Sutra,’ is a remarkable Buddhist text and is considered the world's oldest printed book."

Post #3 D.D.... I'm aware of what you referenced and thanks. But those items are not "dated" except by science. I'm just inquiring about mankind's physically dated book, or coin or any item. Thanks.

 

[Limitool]

Interesting questions. And as I understand it you are asking about those items bearing an an actual date applied at the time of their creation, is that correct?

Post #4. Yes. Not inquiring about artifacts but just human dated at time of creation.

 

[Limitool]

I think I have 3 or 4 BC coins
My 50 BC Gold Stater.

View attachment 2187068View attachment 2187069

Here's my 49-44 BC Roman silver

View attachment 2187070

Post #6. Thanks Pepper. I found coins dated like yours while looking on internet. And it made me think / question how did they get a date with a BC behind it? If science I totally get that...!!!! If by man... how did they know to date it BC....?

 

[Red-Coat]

Post #3 D.D.... I'm aware of what you referenced and thanks. But those items are not "dated" except by science. I'm just inquiring about mankind's physically dated book, or coin or any item. Thanks.

But the Diamond Sutra is dated. The date is printed in the colophon, at the end of the scroll, giving information about who sponsored it. The colophon reads "Reverently made for universal distribution by Wang Jie on behalf of his two parents on the fifteenth day of the fourth month of the ninth year of the Xiantong reign." That's the Chinese calendar equivalent for 11 May 868.

See also my note in Post #8 about the older “Prisse Papyrus”.

 

[pepperj]

Post #2. Yes I can accept science and do. I realize not all artifacts are stamp dated as 99.9% are not. My interest isn't in artifacts at all or the science dating them. My interest is in.... what is the earliest "hand" dated item known to mankind..? This meaning consciously done. When I look something up and it's dated "BC" is that science doing that or by the human hand...? If physically done by mankind (BC dated) how is that possible is my inquiry?

Again not inquiring about artifacts but just earliest human dated item(s). I'm only addressing 1st comment in this thread now. Now I'll read the rest..... Thanks all.

The way I'm understanding your query is this.
Science is dating on their interpretation of events that they've established. Radio carbon dating something.
Recorded history of events or people/rulers living in a BC.

Post #6. Thanks Pepper. I found coins dated like yours while looking on internet. And it made me think / question how did they get a date with a BC behind it? If science I totally get that...!!!! If by man... how did they know to date it BC....?

I was just putting the above post together.
Roman rulers have been well recorded throughout history.
The coinage of Julius Cesar was minted during his reign.
Those Roman's were pretty good at wanting to be recognized as the ruler.

 

[Red-Coat]

Post #6. Thanks Pepper. I found coins dated like yours while looking on internet. And it made me think / question how did they get a date with a BC behind it? If science I totally get that...!!!! If by man... how did they know to date it BC....?

The answers are in post #8

 

[Limitool]

It sounds like your question is sort of twofold. The question I feel most qualified to answer is why do we use Christ's death as zero. The short answer is that we don't. The long answer is that Dionysius Exiguus, a monk living in the 500s, came up with the idea to use a slightly less pagan dating system, and he used a calculated date for Christ's birth as AD 1 (technically AD should come before the year number, and BC goes after). AD is short for Anno Domini, which is Latin for "in the year of our Lord", and BC is short for Before Christ. Now unfortunately, Exiguss calculated Christ's birth year incorrectly as what we now call AD 1. Christ was actually born sometime between 6 and 4 BC. This is part of the reason many modern scholars use BCE (before Common Era) and CE (Common Era), because it is odd to say that Christ was born 4-6 years Before Christ. Before all this, typically you would see dating based on an astronomical calendar or relative to whoever was ruling in a particular place at a particular time. So you might see "In the 5th year of the reign of Ramses II" for example.

So the oldest existing object to have a particular AD date on it would probably be from the 6th century or so. Of course, even though that dating system existed in the 6th century, it wasn't popularized until the 9th century.

Now the oldest object which can be translated into a specific year is trickier to answer. Most likely it would be a text or object which references the occurrence of a specific astronomical event. Astronomical events are much easier to predict, or date retroactively, than human events. For example, the Merneptah Stele in Egypt mentions an eclipse which occurred on October 30th 1207 BC. So this Stele was probably created in that same year or shortly after.

There is also dendrochonology, which involves looking at particulars of plant matter in order to determine dates. For instance, I recall reading about a piece of wood in a viking grave that contained evidence of a volcanic eruption which occurred on a specific date in the 10th century AD. The ash from the eruption had ebedded itself in the tree bark as the tree grew. Then the tree was chopped down and the wood was used in a burial. When the wood was discovered by archeologists, they were able to align the presense of the particular kind of sediment in the wood with a known volcanic eruption from the time period. Human artifacts made of wood have been found which date to be well over 10k years old, with some supposedly over 100000 years old. Some of those arifacts could potentially be dated to specific years based on similar methods.

So the answer to your question depends on what you mean by dated. The answer could be 1000 years ago, or 100000 years ago.
Hope that's useful in some way.

"So the answer to your question depends on what you mean by dated. The answer could be 1000 years ago, or 100000 years ago.
Hope that's useful in some way."

Post #7. WOW...! That was useful. You explained a lot there sir. For that I thank you. But what I mean by "dated" is leaving science out of it as I only mean a item dated by mans hand. I've read your post twice and will again in short order.... Again, thanks.

 

[Limitool]

Adding to what @EnvoyToTheMolePeople and others have said…

By their very nature, dating systems using a ‘numerical’ date need a starting point as a reference for counting and are relative to that reference. So, for our current Western system we use the birth of Christ as the start point. You asked why that start point was designated as “zero” but in fact it isn’t. There is no “year zero” and the year following 1 BC is actually designated AD 1

The starting reference point for Anno Domini (the year of our Lord) uses the traditionally reckoned year of his birth which the Gospels only give us by reference to other events. There are two main clues: one in reference to the reign of King Herod; the other in reference to the beginning of Christ's preaching in the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar and subtraction of his stated age of about 30 years. Retrospectively, modern scholars believe the indicated year of birth would either be between 6 BC and 4 BC or around 2 BC depending on which biblical/historical evidence one uses (and for sure not on 25th December).

Contemporary events in the Roman world would have used the Julian Calendar established by Julius Caesar in 46 BC. Before that, their calendars used the foundation of Rome in 753 BC and the rule of King Romulus as the start point.

Any precise historical dates reckoned from our modern calendar also need to take account of the fact that we switched from the Julian calendar to the Gregorian calendar in 1582 following recalculation of the average solar year. The date was advanced by ten days such that, in 1582, Thursday 4th October was followed by Friday 15th October.

Calendars in other cultures and civilisations take different starting points derived from historical events, celestial events, birth or reigns of rulers/leaders and such. So, for example, our current year of 2025 would be:

7533/4 on the Byzantine calendar (starting from the creation era of Constantinople)
6775 on the Assyrian calendar (starting from the calming of the Great Flood)
5785/6 on the Hebrew calendar (starting from Old Testament creation of the world)
4722/3 or 4515 on the Chinese calendar (based on solar, lunar and other cycles)
1446/7 on the Islamic calendar (starting from Muhammad’s migration to Medina)

Truly ancient artefacts are not usually dated as such and we rely on context or stratigraphy, Marine Isotope Stages, Radiometrics, Thermoluminescence and other techniques.

The Chinese ‘Diamond Sutra’ is indeed the oldest book carrying a physical date, equivalent to 868 BC. However, the Egyptian ‘Prisse Papyrus’ dates to c.1800 BC based on its reference to the 27th year of Khufu’s reign. There are older texts, at least as far back as 3,500 BC, but they aren’t directly dated.

The oldest coin known to have a physical date is probably a Samian Silver Tetradrachm struck in Zankle (modern-day Messina) in Sicily. It carries the letter ‘A’ for ‘year one’ of their calendar, equivalent to 494 BC.

Just for interest, the white flecks in this slice from a carbonaceous chondrite meteorite in my collection are the oldest things I have that can be seen with the naked eye.

View attachment 2187106

They’re called calcium–aluminium-rich inclusions (CAIs) and are the first materials known to have existed in a solidified state as our solar system was being formed. For the four CAIs that have been dated using the Pb-Pb chronometer, the mean age was determined as 4567.30 ± 0.16 Million years. That’s consistent with the commonly accepted birth of our Solar System around 4.6 billion years ago.

Post #8. Just like post #7 you gave a lot of information. Thank you. So I now understand there were various old dating systems until all became common after a long period of time. So if I understand correctly (hopefully?) there were dating systems not aligned with each other and existed at the same time. If that's right BC can vary based upon which system was used at the time...? But I believe no man made item can physically be dated with a BC date...? Is this correct? Science can do that but not physically by man.... correct?. Again, Thank you.

 

[Limitool]

When I was in Spain we dug a lot of old coins but the earliest DATED coins were from around 1599 Vatican coins..

Damn those are some old coins sir. But I believe some of the ancient coins were dated long before that. But you are correct in your previous post about what I was seeking... spot on! Thanks