CS SWORDPLATE WHAT A DAY

[Petrie502]

I don't even have the words to describe it!! Simply put (amazing)!!!!! Find of a lifetime for sure

 

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[HutSiteDigger]

Do you know what they are worth, give or take!! I just like knowing, and any info such as a write up from a website or link to such would be appreciated

Does the back of the button have a back-mark like a - Superior Quality?? or is it just plain?.. Non-Dug variety of the one you have sell for about $800-$1,100 .. Dug ones go for around $300-$500.. Can you post a better picture of the button front & back?

 

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[Petrie502]

Does the back of the button have a back-mark like a - Superior Quality?? or is it just plain?.. Non-Dug variety of the one you have sell for about $800-$1,100 .. Dug ones go for around $300-$500.. Can you post a better picture of the button front & back?

No it doesn't have a back mark!

 

[Petrie502]

I also found this one and it had rust so I grabbed a magnet and sure enough it stuck, I've never found one that stuck to a magnet, all my other civil war buttons have been brass

 

[Petrie502]

Here it is

 

[CC Hunter]

Do you know what they are worth, give or take!! I just like knowing, and any info such as a write up from a website or link to such would be appreciated

There are numerous variations when it comes to military buttons, and backmarks. With good in-focus, closeup photos, with proper lighting, showing the front and back of the button, a more precise determination can be made.

From what little I can see at this point, the button appears to be a CS 20, or a CS 23, or possibly a CS 25A, in Alphaeus Albert's Record of American Uniform and Historical Buttons.

Here's a few examples to compare with your button:

http://relicman.com/buttons/zArchiveButtonConfederateA1OfficerLocals.htm


Assessing value from only dimly defined partial details in a photo here, would be like trying to evaluate a '65 Mustang taken at a distance with an old Polaroid.

CC Hunter

 

[Petrie502]

Here's the confederate staff button but u said 1100 I just found one in way worse shape than mine with no back mark that sold for 2200

 

[Petrie502]

I also found this Kentucky militia coat button, and the book says its confederate as well

 

[Petrie502]

There are numerous variations when it comes to military buttons, and backmarks. With good in-focus, closeup photos, with proper lighting, showing the front and back of the button, a more precise determination can be made.

From what little I can see at this point, the button appears to be a CS 20, or a CS 23, or possibly a CS 25A, in Alphaeus Albert's Record of American Uniform and Historical Buttons.

Assessing value from only dimly defined partial details in a photo here, would be like trying to evaluate a '65 Mustang taken at a distance with an old Polaroid.

CC Hunter

Here's a better pic as for the back, you can't see a back mark because of rust, as I said its made of steel the front seems to be brass and the back steel

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Does this one look similar to the one you have? front and back with shank?

 

[HutSiteDigger]

I just saw the page of the one that is listed and sold for "$2,200" it say's "Nicely mellowed, local Confederate Staff Officer's button. Sweet!" - Sold $2,200 it is labeled "cc016 CS22A" http://www.civilwarbuttons.com/cscentrlist.htm.

If you look above that one there is another "Local Confederate Staff button" for sale for $275. The one I posted in my last post sell for around that same price (dug) and I see these alll the time and know a local dealer who has piles of these for sale for under $300 (dug).. I will have to further research the one that sold for $2,200 that is labeled "cc016 CS22A" Here is a page of "The Picket Post" which is a local CW dealer here in Fredericksburg (not the dealer I know and deal with but they have been in business many years) CS Non-Dug I have never seen a Local confederate staff button sell for over $2,000 or even near that. So - I will have to pass with giving you a real price until I can figure out why this one sold for $2,200. Perhaps CBG or CCHunter can shed some light.

 

[Petrie502]

I just saw the page of the one that is listed and sold for "$2,200" it say's "Nicely mellowed, local Confederate Staff Officer's button. Sweet!" - Sold $2,200 it is labeled "cc016 CS22A" http://www.civilwarbuttons.com/cscentrlist.htm.

If you look above that one there is another "Local Confederate Staff button" for sale for $275. The one I posted in my last post sell for around that same price (dug) and I see these alll the time and know a local dealer who has piles of these for sale for under $300 (dug).. I will have to further research the one that sold for $2,200 that is labeled "cc016 CS22A" Here is a page of "The Picket Post" which is a local CW dealer here in Fredericksburg (not the dealer I know and deal with but they have been in business many years) CS Non-Dug I have never seen a Local confederate staff button sell for over $2,000 or even near that. So - I will have to pass with giving you a real price until I can figure out why this one sold for $2,200. Perhaps CBG or CCHunter can shed some light.

Either way I'm happy, thanks for all your help hut site I pm'ed you my number give me a ring Tommorow!! Thanks for your time buddy

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

The CS Officer button which sold for $2,200 did so only because it was in non-dug condition. In dug condition it would be about $275. For example, on the same webpage, buttons cc019 and cc020 are the exact same as each other except one is dug and $250, the other is non-dug and $1,850.

Petrie, your dug CS Officer button is a cuff size, which has a negative effect on its value, because most button-collectors feel that bigger is better. The cuff-size CS Officer buttons are MUCH more rare than the coat-size ones, but they don't bring the extra money you'd think they would, UNLESS the button was made only in cuff-size (such as button cc021 at that website).

That being said, I've got good news for you. Having done super-close examination of your cuff-size CS Officer button, I can say with certainty that there is no match-up for it in either the Albert button-book or the Tice book. Apparently, you've got an "unlisted" Confederate Officer button. That can add 50% to a button's dollar-value. Some top-level collectors go nuts for real-thing unlisted Confederate buttons.

Here are the characteristics I've observed about your button which IN COMBINATION make it different from any of the cuff CS Officer buttons show in the Albert and Tice books.
1- Its background is smooth, instead of being "lined."
2- The stars are in different positions from any cuff CS Officer buttons shown in the books.
3- The wings are very "triangular" in comparison to the wings on any other cuff CS Officer buttons shown in the books.

Sidenote:
Those details are why I asked for closeup photos when you recently posted the group-photos of your finds. But you never responded to my request. Now that you've finally posted some of the closeup photos I asked for...

About your iron-back yankee cuff-size eagle-button:
It is a kepi-strap button. An iron back causes rust-stains on cloth... but that doesn't matter when the button is on a leather strap.

About your Kentucky State Seal button:
Kentucky did not secede from the Union... and the majority of Kentucky troops served as yankees. So, most collectors do not view a Kentucky Seal button as a Confederate button.

Having said so much about the value of your cuff-size CS Officer button... I think you were also asking about the dollar-value of your solid-cast round-cornered CS buckle. As shown in the scan of the Kerksis buckle-book page posted by HutSiteDigger, it is ranked as a rarity-8 on a scale of 1 through ten, with 10 being the rarest. The last time I saw a dug one in the same condition as yours (especially, having all three hooks intact) for sale, it was priced at $3,700. I don't know what it wound up selling for, but that was the asking-price.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

The CS Officer button which sold for $2,200 did so only because it was in non-dug condition. In dug condition it would be about $275. For example, on the same webpage, buttons cc019 and cc020 are the exact same as each other except one is dug and $250, the other is non-dug and $1,850.

Petrie, your dug CS Officer button is a cuff size, which has a negative eddect on its value, because most button-collectors feel that bigger is better. The cuff-size CS Officer buttons are MUCH more rare than the coat-size ones, but they don't bring the extra money you'd think they would, UNLESS the button was made only in cuff-size (such as button cc021 at that website).

That being said, I've got good news for you. Having done super-close examination of your cuff-size CS Officer button, I can say with certainty that there is no match-up for it in either the Albert button-book or the Tice book. Apparently, you've got an "unlisted" Confederate Officer button. That can add 50% to a button's dollar-value. Some top-level collectors go nuts for real-thing unlisted Confederate buttons.

Here are the characteristics I've observed about your button which IN COMBINATION make it different from any of the cuff CS Officer buttons show in the Albert and Tice books.
1- Its background is smooth, instead of being "lined."
2- The stars are in different positions from any cuff CS Officer buttons shown in the books.
3- The wings are very "triangular" in comparison to the wings on any other cuff CS Officer buttons shown in the books.

Sidenote:
Those details are why I asked for closeup photos when you recently posted the group-photos of your finds. But you never responded to my request. Now that you've finally posted some of the closeup photos I asked for...

About your iron-back yankee cuff-size eagle-button:
It is a kepi-strap button. An iron back causes rust-stains on cloth... but that doesn't matter when the button is on a leather strap.

About your Kentucky State Seal button:
Kentucky did not secede from the Union... and the majority of Kentucky troops served as yankees. So, most collectors do not view a Kentucky Seal button as a Confederate button.

Having said so much about the value of your cuff-size CS Officer button... I think you were also asking about the dollar-value of your solid-cast round-cornered CS buckle. As shown in the scan of the Kerksis buckle-book page posted by HutSiteDigger, it is ranked as a rarity-8 on a scale of 1 through ten, with 10 being the rarest. The last time I saw a dug one in the same condition as yours (especially, having all three hooks intact) for sale, it was priced at $3,700. I don't know what it wound up selling for, but that was the asking-price.

Thanks for the input CBG.... Amazing how some of those non-dug confederate staff buttons can sell for about the same price or higher than a CS two piece buckle, i normally see non-dugs sold for quite under $2,000, this one that sold for $2,200 is quite amazing in the price. I'm digging back in my memory but i think the CS that Petrie dug - Nicky had the same one in his shop a few months back that he wanted to move quick (probably bought it off someone for a good price) I want to say he had $2,600 or $2,800 on it, I don't think it was over $3,000 cause i normally remember the buckles that over $3,000 that he is selling but - it could very well be in the ball park of the one you saw. As you certainly know it depends on if you want the full amount and wait for the right buyer or if you want to move it quick and sell it a few hundred under what the full amount is... I know the one Nicky had sold quick - guess i will ask him what he got out of it when he gets back from Gettysburg.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

This just shows you why civil war relics are a good investment. This is a price guide from North & South trader in 1986 showing the price of some C.S. buckles, including the Army Of Tennessee "CS" price of $950 - twenty some years ago the price was $900 or some dollars for some of these buckles, then skip forward 20 some years later and some of the buckles are being sold for $2,000-$3,000+ sounds like a pretty good investment to me.

 

[CC Hunter]

The relics were a much better investment, looking back at the old Bannerman's catalogs from the 1920's!

A really good investment, is something that gains faster than the cost increases and inflation. If we are dealing with say around 5% inflation annually, something that doubles in value over a twenty year period, actually has no more comparative buying power value than before. However, it sure beats having greenbacks buried in a fruit jar in the backyard, that are losing value even before the dirt can be shoveled over the stash. Dollars are merely numbers, and the true value is what the numbers will bring in goods or services in exchange.

CC Hunter

 

[HutSiteDigger]

Stopped by Regimental Headquarters this afternoon to do some trading and spoke with Nick about this Army of Tennessee CS - he said the one that sold a few months back for $2,800 the back of the buckle was not in good condition! He showed me another one that he has that is pin-point similar to the one Petrie dug and wants $3,200 and not a dime less(he actually had it for sale @ a show for $3,500 and had some potential buyers with interest but was not able to sell it)

Please note this is a Relic Shop price of a guy who is been in business for over 40 years and deals and see's this kind of stuff every-day and sells relics at his price (which i think his relics are more in line with what the real prices should be). Every one will have a different opinion about the price, this is not e-bay or auction price just simply a off-line relic shop price. Chances are if you hung around and waited for the right buyer you could get in the ball park of $3,500-$3,700 for it. I simply enjoyed having the plate in my hands this afternoon. Pretty rare indeed.