Crucifix Found. Thanks for ID. -SOLVED-

[Bigcypresshunter]

I found this heavy crucifix a long time ago in a junk box at a flea market for 25 cents. It was all solid black at the time. I polished it and now it seems to be tarnishing again. I think its solid silver, quite heavy and soft (I remember bending it). I gave it to my Mom. I asked her to bring it so I could take these pictures. The only markings on the back to help with identification is "163 SARGENT". It says "INRI" on the front. I would really appreciate if someone could help put a date to this. I have always wondered if it was something old or special.

 

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[ivan salis]

Re: Crucifix Found. Would Really Appreciate ID.

the front lettering is from when christ was cruxified -- its latin based it means --- jesus of nazatih , king of the jews --the romans had it placed on christ cross thus "mocking" him with the "title" there is no j in latin the letter "I" is used for "j" ---so it would be JNRJ---Jesus of Nazarath Rex of the Jews (rex is latin for king)----- however the 163 sargent might be a makers name and model number --good chance its silver or silver plated at least .

 

[ashleen]

Re: Crucifix Found. Would Really Appreciate ID.

I think INRI means.....King of the Jews

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Crucifix Found. Would Really Appreciate ID.

you are correct-- see my post above

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Crucifix Found. Would Really Appreciate ID.

... the 163 sargent might be a makers name and model number --good chance its silver or silver plated at least .

I scratched it under the SARGENT mark to see if it was silver underneath before I bought it. It appears to be solid silver and soft. Why would it be so soft? Is pure silver soft? I remember bending it to a "U" shape and back. It almost seems like a lead alloy. (heavy and soft)

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Crucifix Found. Would Really Appreciate ID.

very well might be a lead alloy or pewter* which is heavy and fairly soft -- thus why you got it for 25 cents -- if it was silver the flea market hounds would have jumped on it.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Crucifix Found. Would Really Appreciate ID.

very well might be a lead alloy or pewter* which is heavy and fairly soft -- thus why you got it for 25 cents -- if it was silver the flea market hounds would have jumped on it.

I am a flea market hound from way back. It was in the bottom of an old box with rusted items. I was really early and the first to see it. Does pewter turn black? Silver plated pewter? I will try to mix an acid test solution.

 

[Moe (fl)]

Re: Crucifix Found. Would Really Appreciate ID.

Bigcypresshunter,

You may have a valuable find there. Have it checked before more testing.

The "163 Sargent" mark may be in reference to John Singer Sargent (1856–1925). He was a famous artist that did paintings and crucifixes too. His art works are in several museums.

Here is an excerpt that talks about a bronze crucifix:

"Sargent Holdings: The Saint-Gaudens National Historic Site owns a bronze model (1898-99), #1648, of Sargent's Crucifix for the Boston Public Library. The model was given to Saint-Gaudens by Sargent in gratitude for the assistance of Saint-Gaudens' studio caster, Gaeton Ardison. The Historic Site also houses a portrait medallion of John Singer Sargent (#1613) and a portrait relief of Violet Sargent (#1164) by Augustus Saint-Gaudens."

Here are some links to more information on Sargent's crucifix:
http://sargentmurals.bpl.org/site/murals/01_crucifix.html

http://www.sargentmurals.bpl.org/site/imagesection/06_images.html

http://www.sargentmurals.bpl.org/site/sargent/13_bio.html

http://jssgallery.org/Paintings/10016.htm

Great find!
HH.
Moe

 

[Moe (fl)]

Re: Crucifix Found. Would Really Appreciate ID.

Bigcypresshunter,

Note the rays on your crucifix above Christ's head and look at the similar rays in the link below:

http://jssgallery.org/Paintings/10016.htm

Moe

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Crucifix Found. Would Really Appreciate ID.

There appears to be a mark under the Jesus figure. It is in the shape of a "U" or possibly a fish.
There appears to be marks on the back inside of the Jesus figure. I cant make it out but a "&" for sure. Maybe "& C O".

 

[ivan salis]

Re: Crucifix Found. Would Really Appreciate ID.

NO ACID ! --- very possible pewter --- I would treat it with great care -- might be #163 of a limited set of say 200 or 1,000 pieces -- sargent was a famous early 1900's artist check it out carefully &treat it with care.--- might be a $$ big find if sold to the right person -- Ivan

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Crucifix Found. Would Really Appreciate ID.

Thanks all. I was just going to test the spot I already scratched years ago when I didnt know any better. Im beginning to think it may be silver plated pewter. Sargent was also the name of a New Haven hardware company.
http://www.sargentlock.com/about/

 

[Mental Granny]

Re: Crucifix Found. Would Really Appreciate ID.

To me it looks like the crosses they laid on the casket at Catholic funerals it is like the one they were going to lay on my grand mothers. It never made it but it was heavy--and they lay it right above where the family spray goes then a family member --spouse --child is given it after the service. Its been a few years since I have been to a service there so I don't know if they still do it.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Crucifix Found. Would Really Appreciate ID.

To me it looks like the crosses they laid on the casket at Catholic funerals it is like the one they were going to lay on my grand mothers. It never made it but it was heavy--and they lay it right above where the family spray goes then a family member --spouse --child is given it after the service. Its been a few years since I have been to a service there so I don't know if they still do it.

Thanks. That sounds like what I have, but I cant find where Sargent & Co. made silver crucifixes.

I made up a test solution consisting of:

1 oz. Potassium Dichromate.
6 oz. Nitric Acid
2 oz. water.


I put one drop on the old scratch mark on the backside. I used TN member Realde Tayopa's wipe chart:

apply a drop of solution- watch for color reaction.

A) Wait one minute, check the color of the soloution, wipe it off and check the color/mark on the metal for the following color.
`~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(start) ( after one minute )
Brass--Dark Brown --------------------------light brown
Copper--Brown--------------------------------cleaned copper
Gold--None-------------------------------------none
Nickel--Blue------------------------------------scarcely any
Lead--Yellow----------------------------------leaden
Tin--Yellow------------------------------------dark
Silver(pure)--Bright Red-------------------grayish white
Silver .925--Dark Red----------------------dark brown
Silver .800--Brown-------------------------dark brown
Silver .500--Green--------------------------dark brown
Palladium--None-----------------------------non
Platinum--Vandyke brown---------------none
Iorn --various -------------------------------black
Zinc --light chocolate---------------------steel grey
Auluminum---Yellow ---------------------no stain

A) then wipe the soloution off and look at he spot left on the metal.

And the results:
I have a bright red in surrounding area, but definitely yellow at the scratch mark (where the surface plating was removed). Being that its heavy and soft, this tells me that the crucifix is tin, pewter, lead or a combination...not solid silver as I had believed. My guess is heavy silver plated pewter/lead alloy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pewter


Note: If you use this test solution, be sure to wash relic with water when finished. And of course wash hands and be very careful using this or any acid solution.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Crucifix Found. Would Really Appreciate ID.

I have found some valuable items in junk boxes, even gold and silver, even in the trash. The acid test solution that I made up is the same type used by jewelers. I was disappointed to see the yellow color appear at the scratch mark, meaning it is not solid silver, like I thought. I only bent it that one time. Maybe some type of lead base. I wish I knew what "SARGENT" meant, if it is the famous 1900's crucifix artist. Thanks everyone for their help.

 

[SHERMANVILLE ILLINOIS]

Re: Crucifix Found. Would Really Appreciate ID.

bigcy,
I'm no help on the I.D.

A very nice find, hope your able to get more
of an I.D.

have a good un......
SHERMANVILLE

 

[frogwizard]

Re: Crucifix Found. Would Really Appreciate ID.

These were used on caskets at wakes and funerals from the 1940's to the 1960's. Hope it helps.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Re: Crucifix Found. Would Really Appreciate ID.

These were used on caskets at wakes and funerals from the 1940's to the 1960's. Hope it helps.

Well, it was probably too late for the recently departed by then though they might have made the grieving family feel better.

Oh. You mean help identify the Crucifix.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Re: Crucifix Found. Would Really Appreciate ID.

These were used on caskets at wakes and funerals from the 1940's to the 1960's. Hope it helps.

Yes it does help! It looks very much like the crucifix on the right, It even has the nail holes. Wonder what they are for? To nail to the casket? Do you have the link? Im ready to call it solved, if I could ID the word Sargent. Maybe Sargent & Co.

 

[Angelo]

Re: Crucifix Found. Would Really Appreciate ID.

Nice Job FROGWIZARD!

The one on the right is very close.

Tony