Crowdsourcing to uncover the history that lies hidden beneath the waves.

[treasurediver]

BVI Hunter is a really well motivated young individual I personally know can be spoken about in the same way as some of the older more experienced trusted by everyone guys and girls.

I think he would make a great group/ project leader, he also has great investment contacts from his time as a building contractor......

Treasure divers idea about a cloud or a password protected site is the best idea on the thread, we could all contribute, get instructions, share info and vote on stuff.

This project needs a name. Then we need to implement the PROJECT CLOUD. There are offers for a cloud on the table from GOOGLE and from MICROSOFT. I am no expert on cloud building, so there we need another expert participant.

Let's vote for a project name.
Suggestions are welcome. Here are a few:


Davy Jones Locker (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davy_Jones'_Locker
The history that lies hidden beneath the waves
Ocean Memory
The Sea Remembers

 

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[Salvor6]

Treasurenet can set up a private forum that can be seen only by password. They did it for the ARRG Group a few years ago.

 

[SADS 669]

There is one name that says it all. " the Bucanneers"

 

[Vox veritas]

Gentlemen,
very cute and constructive everything they have said, but there is a disturbing element: UNESCO and bilateral treaties between countries. Do not forget the 1998-2002 JUNO-GALGA case (SEA HUNT INC.). Right now there is a problem in Panama (San Jose 1631).

 

[SADS 669]

Please give a concise explanation about your helpful post above, for those of us who don't know about the treaties or Juno....??
Thanks

 

[Vox veritas]

Please give a concise explanation about your helpful post above, for those of us who don't know about the treaties or Juno....??
Thanks

Sea Hunt, Inc. v. Unidentified Vessels, Kingdom of Spain (4th Cir.)

The Sea Hunt Case

http://www.leagle.com/decision/1999.../SEA HUNT v. UNIDENTIFIED, SHIPWRECKED VESSEL

https://books.google.es/books?id=HS...#v=onepage&q=sea hunt case juno galga&f=false

 

[Vox veritas]

Bahamas has not signed the UNESCO convention. Spain can not claim sovereign immunity in Bahamian waters. Panama yes, signed the convention.

 

[SADS 669]

I knew that but unless we can get the Bahamian government to look at this subject as a money earner it's a moot point.

I think the Ministry's have so much work to do in other areas the permits etc are at the bottom of the " on ice" trays.

I am going to have a chat with the Antiquities guys in Nassau next time I am there, because an honest Bahamian ( funded by the salvor) on board the vessel videoing everything and turning it in would go a long way to solving the trust issues.

It would only take a couple of permits to be issued as a trial to see how it could work, there are even two or three Bahamian Companies willing to go looking.

 

[Vox veritas]

Sea Hunt, Inc. v. Unidentified Vessels, Kingdom of Spain (4th Cir.)

The Sea Hunt Case

SEA HUNT v. UNIDENTIFIED, SHIPWRECKED VESSEL | Leagle.com

https://books.google.es/books?id=HS...#v=onepage&q=sea hunt case juno galga&f=false

Now, according to the legislation of the Spanish cultural heritage, who found "by chance" are entitled to an award of 50%. It's funny how in the case of SEA HUNT, never formally declared to have found a wreck of a ship called JUNO or another called GALGA. In an agreement signed between SEA HUNT and the Ministry of Culture of Spain, the agency acknowledged the award 50% to SEA HUNT.

 

[releventchair]

Wreck recoveries seem to need an experienced, successful legal crew. To confirm laws prior to recovery and resolve contest's. Does a trusted team of such exist?
The cost of frivolous suits (expected on any recovery) can eat up more than potential profit.
Even when in the right and within the law, litigation a very real expense. If up against a nation,whoo boy. Who has the deeper pockets?
Just need to assure no error in law research, and funding for legal representation.
What insurance for crew and equipment needs figured with it.
What percentage of potential investors capitol needs to be put aside for legal retainers and defense if required, and at what point does going to court be decided?
No amount would seem too much; but a need for conservative logic is required to not make investors gun shy.

 

[BVI Hunter]

BVI Hunter is a really well motivated young individual I personally know can be spoken about in the same way as some of the older more experienced trusted by everyone guys and girls.

I think he would make a great group/ project leader, he also has great investment contacts from his time as a building contractor......

Treasure divers idea about a cloud or a password protected site is the best idea on the thread, we could all contribute, get instructions, share info and vote on stuff.

OK, I'm in

just playing catch-up at the moment...

 

[SADS 669]

Me too,....if needed?

 

[releventchair]

One more post and I'll leave the thread to those who would search for wrecks to recover from.
As a landlubber it's out of my realm,with minor possible exception.
When looking at potential success in a business, look to it's management. There is an important part of it's vested interest.
Inefficiency and poor working of war/chess board and contingencies when a move fails, can be fatal. Sometimes fast and other times agonizingly slow.
Temporary or more permanent replacements need to be up to speed, or a simple plan to get them there pronto.
Mission, research,plan,resources,work.
Voids in critical, (and all should be or why do they exist) positions are filled from the ranks or outside them depending on? Who is groomed how for what through cross training or previous skill sets or advancement/education through the ranks? Not with just a body, but a passion for the task.
Just as important and often a contention is the least involved in management. The lowest on the totem pole plucking one note on one string. If they are hitting the right note and smiling they are among the top assets.
When asked what is wrong with the operation or what can be improved,often the insight is not recognized by management in a failing field.
It is not required to attend to all concerns, opinions and beliefs off all members but they need to be known.
Having worked with crews that could turn the world with a proper handle and still have the company need to change hands repeatedly till failing ,(hey I bailed before the sinking, it was very obvious, voiced by myself as constructively as possible at the time, and ignored by most) being disjointed and disconnected from the common actual worker in the arena is not a group effort.
A one sided perspective perhaps but not uninformed as to actual causes,mostly of wasted monies and too great a spread of actual management over multiple locations and no consistent practices of knowing what is going on at all ends due to no committed attention beyond paper results.
Those who treat it as simply a job vs those who approach their work with a true passion are very different over time as well.
While full time attention is needed ,at times for long periods, being able to "change hats" and decompress is vital to avoid burnout and mutiny.
Sometimes answers to questions arrive after not dwelling on them intently for a while.
Besides;life has a balance.
Keep it fun all; and it may seem less difficult.

 

[treasurediver]

A lot of questions have been raised above.
A lot of good advice has been given too.
So let me give some answer:

I do have a long life of experience on the oceans and in the oceans, from shallow commercial diving to deep Helium saturation, salvage operations, management, archaeological digs and much more. Attached is a picture of me, long time ago, on a deep salvage operation.

But this is not about me. I am retired. I am not going to manage, organize or participate in this enterprise, except as an occasional consultant.
I am here because there are people here who have a passion for shipwrecks. There is also a large pool of experience and knowledge. These things are rare. This is why I am recruiting here.

Yes, we have shallow shipwrecks too. But don't expect me to tell you about them. It is a mistake that I made a few times over the last half a century.

Now, I have asked questions myself. The aim of my questions was to fish for talent, to see if somebody knows the answers.
It is going to be a big enterprise. Lots of talented, passionate people are needed. Diving is only a very minor part.

Organizing is a very large part.
Business is a very large part.
Marketing is a very large part.
Communications is a very large part.

CROWDSOURCING is fishing for experts for every job, big or small. Yes, there are small jobs too, but they are all important.

About the funding we do not talk here. We are not there yet. The business plan is not complete yet.

 

[MPH200]

Sea Hunt, Inc. v. Unidentified Vessels, Kingdom of Spain (4th Cir.)

The Sea Hunt Case

http://www.leagle.com/decision/1999.../SEA HUNT v. UNIDENTIFIED, SHIPWRECKED VESSEL

https://books.google.es/books?id=HS...#v=onepage&q=sea hunt case juno galga&f=false

Very interesting read thanks Vox

The Kingdom of Spain has abandoned La Galga and the Juno in favor of two unidentified shipwrecks that they knew were not the actual ships. The souls of four hundred and thirteen soldiers, sailors, and a handful of women and children have been waiting for their watery grave to be discovered. They have watched their homeland abandon them for the sake of political expediency and a legal precedent. They heard the statements in court that their ship had not been found. They saw the proper documentation that would have faithfully recognized their last day on earth, which could and should have been presented to the American arbiter, thus resulting in a ruling by 4th Circuit that would torment their souls through eternity. As for La Galga, Spain has breached the stipulation that they agreed to on April 1, 1999 that La Galga was in the ocean lying within three miles of the beach. Without that stipulation, Spain would have had no standing to even be in the case. Now, they are preventing archaeological investigation of a site on American soil that has great historical significance. Fortunately there are no graves associated with this shipwreck. Spain is quite happy to display the artifacts, property of the Commonwealth of Virginia improperly taken in the Sea Hunt case, and have them displayed in a National Park of the United States as souvenirs of their conquest of Sea Hunt. Spain ignored my letter of July 20, 1999 about the truth related to these vessels. They proceeded anyway and allowed the 4th Circuit to make pronouncements of fact that were clearly untrue as found in the Sea Hunt record. It would be hard to make a better case for Spain’s abandonment of these two ships either constructively or expressly. The Sea Hunt case needs to be retried if they insist on using it in other legal and public forums. It is unconscionable otherwise.

 

[treasurediver]

Old man, thank you for the good advice.


Treasurediver,YOU have a lot of experience in deep water and shallow water salvage.Most people on this board (about 99%) do not have deep water salvage experience. They all have a love of treasure hunting and they are all blessed to have that. I fully agree I ask some very specific questions in another post. For anyone to really put a plan together, they would need answers to those questions and many other questions. I agree, but on the open forum the information needs to be limited.
I only joined tnet to help people. Do I consider myself an expert? No,I don't think anyone is an expert in most endeavors. I do consider you an expert. I know few people who know more on the subject..

I became a certified Commercial diver in 1972 so I know about deep water diving. I became a PADI instructor in 1976 so I know a little a bout scuba diving. I also know that you need experts in deep water salvage to be successful. I am working on a deep water wreck, so I know that you need experienced people involved in deep water salvage to be successful. Sure you need deck hands and experts in conservation, once you make a recovery. But if you are going after a deep water wreck? You need experts in that field. Absolutely right, we need experts for every field we are going to work in.

You have not given these people enough information to even start on a plan. I agree, I did not expect people to present a plan with the few pieces of information I offered. I hoped to get offers of interest, so that I could give more information to the interested people through nonpublic channels. Remember I mentioned the need to open a password protected cloud for that purpose.(No I don't want to know where your wreck is, I gave away the location of 3 sites at the cookout. To people that I knew could do the job.)It is so difficult to find the right people to give a shipwreck to. I gave away my first treasure shipwreck that I found in 1970.Unfortunately the people I gave it to, did not develop it to its full potential, but only skimmed it. I admit that at that time I would not have been capable of doing a better job.
10 years later again I gave away 5 valuable shipwrecks. The same thing happened.
A few more years have passed. I learned a lot in these years. I still give things away, because now I am retired and don't need anything for myself. But I try to find a good home for the things I give away.To give a good gift gives me more happiness than money can buy. But it gives me sleepless nights when I fail and squander what I have.
I'll give you some advice on putting a plan together. One man or woman can't do it. This needs to be done like a military operation, with the planning. I went from an E-1 to E-6 and then an O-1 to O-3.
The way we planned an operation is that every man on the team was an expert in his field. Communications, Intel, weapons, medical etc.
Each team member got a packet of intel and planned the operation and then the Detachment Commander, listened to everyone and put a plan together. The lowest member of the team sometimes had the best advice to do something. I totally agree. I must again mention the password protected project cloud for handing packets of intel.

You are giving these guys a site that they do not have enough information to do anything but have a general idea of what to do.
I think you are trying to find out if you can get a good team together.The talent is on this forum. I hope you find who you need. I won't take up any time on your thread unless someone asks me a question. I know that my skill in communications is non existent. Speaking,reading and writing 5 languages, yet am not capable of getting a message across. It is sad, but I know it is like that. This is why I am looking for somebody with good communication skills to translate my messages into something people can understand.

Personally,if you are afraid of all your knowledge on shipwrecks being lost,once you are gone? I think you should contact Terry Armstrong or Claudio to help you write a book. Then your knowledge would be around for everyone to read and you could have some money for your retirement. I did make some feeble attempts in doing that. Not for me, I am already retired and don't need anything, but for the project. Books,youtubes, films, publicity are all important for the marketing. The marketing has to be prepared in advance. Mel Fisher sold his finds much before he found them.

I am not trying to be negative. I am only giving Advice that you told us not to be SHY about. Good Luck. I hope everything works out for you and the team.


I thank for the all the advice given by you and all others. Sorry for not answering to each one personally.

 

[Vox veritas]

Very interesting read thanks Vox

The Kingdom of Spain has abandoned La Galga and the Juno in favor of two unidentified shipwrecks that they knew were not the actual ships. The souls of four hundred and thirteen soldiers, sailors, and a handful of women and children have been waiting for their watery grave to be discovered. They have watched their homeland abandon them for the sake of political expediency and a legal precedent. They heard the statements in court that their ship had not been found. They saw the proper documentation that would have faithfully recognized their last day on earth, which could and should have been presented to the American arbiter, thus resulting in a ruling by 4th Circuit that would torment their souls through eternity. As for La Galga, Spain has breached the stipulation that they agreed to on April 1, 1999 that La Galga was in the ocean lying within three miles of the beach. Without that stipulation, Spain would have had no standing to even be in the case. Now, they are preventing archaeological investigation of a site on American soil that has great historical significance. Fortunately there are no graves associated with this shipwreck. Spain is quite happy to display the artifacts, property of the Commonwealth of Virginia improperly taken in the Sea Hunt case, and have them displayed in a National Park of the United States as souvenirs of their conquest of Sea Hunt. Spain ignored my letter of July 20, 1999 about the truth related to these vessels. They proceeded anyway and allowed the 4th Circuit to make pronouncements of fact that were clearly untrue as found in the Sea Hunt record. It would be hard to make a better case for Spain’s abandonment of these two ships either constructively or expressly. The Sea Hunt case needs to be retried if they insist on using it in other legal and public forums. It is unconscionable otherwise.

MPH,
There were strange things with vested interests in everything related to the case SEA HUNT !!!

 

[G.I.B.]

You will need someone in charge of security.

You will have a lot of equipment that needs to be guarded/protected, you have a crew that needs security, and if you find anything worthwhile, you need that protected as well.

The security director needs to have an extensive background in law enforcement and investigations, properly conduct background investigations/vetting of prospective team members, be familiar with dive/salvage operations, familiar with maritime and local laws governing the teams activities, to include their protection from thieves and thugs.

I hereby apply for the position.

Resume available upon request.

 

[SADS 669]

Need a village idiot to entertain everyone?, I'm in.......

 

[treasurediver]

You will need someone in charge of security.

You will have a lot of equipment that needs to be guarded/protected, you have a crew that needs security, and if you find anything worthwhile, you need that protected as well.

The security director needs to have an extensive background in law enforcement and investigations, properly conduct background investigations/vetting of prospective team members, be familiar with dive/salvage operations, familiar with maritime and local laws governing the teams activities, to include their protection from thieves and thugs.

I hereby apply for the position.

Resume available upon request.

I agree and would be glad to receive your Resume.