CRAZY JAKE

[cactusjumper]

ah...1983...a good year in those mountains...if you avoided everyone...
I think it was '85 when I saw the migration of tarantulas...
never met anyone who has seen such a sight...was I blessed or what?

Donald,

Indeed you were blessed.........Unless you were sleeping on the ground and they migrated over you. I believe that would qualify as a rude awakening.

Take care,

Joe

 

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[markmar]

Don't want to break in here, but I had sent a pm to a guy who had one of these LDM posts. When I was very young( 1969-1970) I had worked at a place that employed musicians. There was an old, old man named Jerry who, if I remember, was the piano player. He told me about him and his partner having a sheelite(tungsten) ore mine in the superstitions(1920's-1930's) and he drew me a map. The map had three canyons and he marked his mine in the third canyon and the LDM in the first or second, just don't remember). A few years later a friend and I went out there. Using the map I found Jerry's mine. That was all I looked for. I put the map away and never thought about it again. I told him I would look for it. I searched everything I still have(I'm 64), but could not find it. I tried to remember and then it came to me. One of my female high school students had to do a project in another class and she picked the LDM. She asked me if I could help. I had kept files from all western states I had visited and I had a fake, tourist map of the LDM. I gave her that and the map Jerry had drawn and told her someday she could get rich if she followed the map because it was supposed to be real. I also gave her some pyrite, a little vial of gold flakes and a tourist story about the mine. She got an A, I got a hug and I just forgot the whole thing. Anyway, if you are the guy I was pm'ing with, I'm sorry. I think Weaver's Needle was in back of Jerry and a little to the left, but I can't really remember. The canyons aren't big, I went into the third(far right), but the country was just too rough, Jerry said that Indian guards working for the government guarded the mine and ran people off and we were headed to Las Vegas anyway and then on to Cal. We were both hippies, loved life and cared nothing for wealth. Again, if you are the guy I spoke with, sorry I don't have the map.

The same story have posted TN member " austin " in a conversation with me . Look at this

Originally Posted by markmar
austin

You wrote " BUT (and I've told it before) when I was young a very old man told me of his sheelite mine in those mtns., drew me a map and told me where the LDM was. Found his mine and the canyon where the LDM was supposed to be. "

Can you upload this map ? Maybe I can help you in some details .

Marius



I told this story on here before, but here goes. Jerry drew a map on a piece of paper, a friend and I(both hippies) went looking in a $200, 1961 Chevrolet sedan, I was about 19-20, we found Jerry's old mine(he was in his 70's then), found the other canyon where the LDM was supposed to be, could see a slide area I thought, didn't investigate it, never believed it, was heading for my 3rd year of geology and knew better, plus there were other places we wanted to go. Fast forward about 15 years, I went back to college, changed my major to history and graduated and became a teacher(science and history). Really nice young lady in my science class had a project to do for history and she picked LDM. Asked me for help. I had filed the map away with a couple of clippings, a fake tourist map I bought in Phoenix and I gave the file to her and told her to keep it. She did her report, got an A, I got a hug and I forgot about it. Now fast forward to this. The map is gone, and all I can remember is that their were three canyons, I think NE about a mile or so from Weaver's Needle and the sheelite mine was in the far right (3rd) canyon and the LDM was in the second one. They are not big, more like little draws, I went hiking with a lady friend I met on a trip to Europe who invited me to Chandler(she taught in Mesa or vice-versa)we hiked a bit out there, it is/was a government wilderness and she and I never gave a thought to looking for either mine. I never believed Jerry's stories of Apache guards working for the U.S. govt. wearing badges and watching over the gold. I was just a hill country Texas kid that lived for arrowheads, collected old colt pistols, quit killing animals and always had several jobs, good money in the bank and a big inheritance. I tried that gold mining stuff for 6 months once, nearly starved, froze to death and I think today's aches and pains are from that. Is there gold there? I doubt it, but I'm not the expert. Go there, ask a ranger for a map or sketch to the sheelite mine and go left one canyon. Those mines are shown today on topo maps and it isn't hard to find. We were stoked on Coors tall boys(we couldn't get it here in San Antonio then, had to drive 90 miles to Uvalde) and we found the mine. If you live near me, I'll meet you at the Broken Spoke in Austin and do my best to re-draw the map. Only thing I don't remember is what direction from the Needle. Sorry, but I think all of you guys are wasting your time. I won't argue about it and everyone can do as they wish. I am sort of retired, a tad crippled up and extremely lazy. Good luck on your hunt...

This conversation wasn't a PM

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

Donald,

Indeed you were blessed.........Unless you were sleeping on the ground and they migrated over you. I believe that would qualify as a rude awakening.

Take care,

Joe

I got it in my head to walk up first water creek to the mountain...from the parking lot at first water...
...half way up, the entire creek bed seemed to come alive...hundreds of spiders walking down the creek bed...stood there almost twenty minutes for them all to travel past...even the dog stood still and quiet...and that is rare for a sheltie...
interesting walk...don't know anyone who has walked up first water like that...scared my self up at the top...I knew I wasn't lost...but...it got real strange fast.

 

[cactusjumper]

Marius,

Back in the day when Kraig called me friend, we had a number of conversations about Crazy Jake. He ended up by sending me Jake's manuscript for a book that Jake had been writing. It was interesting.....to say the least.

On the other hand, IMHO, Jake was just one more charlatan who attached himself to LDM history. My mother's uncle, Obie Stoker, and my Uncle Chuck both warned me to avoid him if we ever met up in the mountains. As I seldom frequented that area of the mountains, such a meeting never took place.

Kraig has tons of good historical information, as well as some that is questionable. Those early years of Internet contact with Dutch hunters were a mixed blessing of good and bad. It took me awhile to learn who were my friends and who were just friendly acquaintances.

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[markmar]

Joe

Maybe Crazy Jake was an charlatan , but he camped close to the cave ( he didn't knew that ) .
The really friends are only in the innocents ages ( 5-19 years old ) . After are only friendly acquaintances.

 

[johnmark29020]

Joe

Maybe Crazy Jake was an charlatan , but he camped close to the cave ( he didn't knew that ) .
The really friends are only in the innocents ages ( 5-19 years old ) . After are only friendly acquaintances.

When was the cave located.

 

[markmar]

When was the cave located.

When or where ? If " where " , is close to where Crazy Jake had camped . Close from the top of Squaw Canyon .

 

[johnmark29020]

The folks that lived in the Mtn sure were a colorful bunch. Crazy jack included. There story would make a good movie
Shortly after joining tnet I read online that a cave full of gold bars was found just outside of the wilderness boundary. I tried to find the story again but couldn't. I wonder if they are the same.

 

[markmar]

Joe

Know you what symbol has the Crazy Jake's gold bar ?

 

[Matthew Roberts]

markmar,

You sent me a PM recently asking about that marking. If you will PM me your email address I will send you the photo of the rock marking that matched the mark stamped on Crazy Jakes gold bar.

The gold bar belonged to Jake and he either purchased it or was given the bar by a man he met in the 1960's.
The marking on the rock that matched the mark stamped on Jake's gold bar was allegedly discovered by Ellis Schmidt although I personally believe Schmidt never saw the rock marking and got the photo of the marking from Walter Gassler whom I know did have personal knowledge of that marking.

I don't know what ever happened to the gold bar Jake had, I assume Jake's girlfriend may have it. Jake did not give me a photo of his gold bar although I know where a copy of it is, however I don't have liberty to ask for or send copies of it to anyone .

There is a very interesting story behind the gold bar Jake had in his possession and that particular rock marking.

Matthew K. Roberts

 

[markmar]

Matthew

Thank you for your answer .
I would like to read the story behind the gold bar in relation with the rock marking .

 

[cactusjumper]

The folks that lived in the Mtn sure were a colorful bunch. Crazy jack included. There story would make a good movie
Shortly after joining tnet I read online that a cave full of gold bars was found just outside of the wilderness boundary. I tried to find the story again but couldn't. I wonder if they are the same.

JM,

I believe that story had to do with some buried gold bars, found just north of the road to First Water. It was close to the Wilderness boundary. It's an interesting story and may very well be the gold that was in Harry LaFrance's cave of gold bars.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[cactusjumper]

Joe

Know you what symbol has the Crazy Jake's gold bar ?

Marius,

Here is part of what Kraig wrote on an old forum:

[Some time in the mid 1970's, either Jake , or one of Jakes men, discovered an old Spanish or Mexican symbol carved into a rock wall in a remote place deep inside Jake's search area. The finding of this symbol was significant as the symbol matched perfectly, a small stamped symbol on the gold bar Jake had been given or purchased, years previously.


The symbol on the rock looked like this, 364

This find set off in Jake an excitement that never faded in him, even after serving years in prison, when he got out, he still had to return to the mountains to try and unravel the mystery and find the cave and mine he knew must be there, hidden in the rocks and canyons.

There was something else carved on the rock along with that small cross symbol, the same symbol cross that appeared on Jake's gold bar. It was a symbol of a mountain or a hill. And somewhere near the base of that hill a mark was made that Jake believed was the entrance to the cave, and or mine. Jakes excitement at finding this rock symbol could not have been more intense because the carving of the hill and mark that Jake believed was the entrance or, "drop hole" as Jake called it, matched perfectly with a sketch on a map Jake had obtained from a man named Kochera who had gotten the map from an indian from San Carlos named Haywood.

The carving of the mountain, and mark near the bottom of the mountain or hill, was only inches above and to the left of the cross symbol that matched Jake's gold bar. The symbols together looked like this , 365]

Good luck,

Joe

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

I have to say...the more I read about those mountains...the less I believe I ever walked around out there...

 

[Cubfan64]

Marius,

Here is part of what Kraig wrote on an old forum:

[Some time in the mid 1970's, either Jake , or one of Jakes men, discovered an old Spanish or Mexican symbol carved into a rock wall in a remote place deep inside Jake's search area. The finding of this symbol was significant as the symbol matched perfectly, a small stamped symbol on the gold bar Jake had been given or purchased, years previously.


The symbol on the rock looked like this, 364

This find set off in Jake an excitement that never faded in him, even after serving years in prison, when he got out, he still had to return to the mountains to try and unravel the mystery and find the cave and mine he knew must be there, hidden in the rocks and canyons.

There was something else carved on the rock along with that small cross symbol, the same symbol cross that appeared on Jake's gold bar. It was a symbol of a mountain or a hill. And somewhere near the base of that hill a mark was made that Jake believed was the entrance to the cave, and or mine. Jakes excitement at finding this rock symbol could not have been more intense because the carving of the hill and mark that Jake believed was the entrance or, "drop hole" as Jake called it, matched perfectly with a sketch on a map Jake had obtained from a man named Kochera who had gotten the map from an indian from San Carlos named Haywood.

The carving of the mountain, and mark near the bottom of the mountain or hill, was only inches above and to the left of the cross symbol that matched Jake's gold bar. The symbols together looked like this , 365]

Good luck,

Joe

Joe, just a quick addendum/clarification to your post above for those studying it. Don't make the mistake of thinking the symbol looked like the number 364 or 365 or anything. It's just that when copying and pasting from another forum, those images didn't copy over. In this case, it's possible those images are no longer even in the original thread.

The internet just "assigned" values like that to the images - the numbers mean nothing at all.

 

[cactusjumper]

Paul,

I am aware of that fact. I thought after, maybe I should mention it, but felt it was obvious. Further on in my post, Kraig describes a Coptic Cross. I assumed that was the mark on Jake's gold bar......perhaps mistakenly. The marks on all of the other gold bars that are described as being found in the Supe's, have always been five dots with lines connecting them that made a crown.

I personally knew a number of men who held LaFrance's gold bar in their hands, so I trust that story implicitly.

Thank's for clearing things up.

Take care, friend,

Joe

 

[Cubfan64]

Paul,

I am aware of that fact. I thought after, maybe I should mention it, but felt it was obvious. Further on in my post, Kraig describes a Coptic Cross. I assumed that was the mark on Jake's gold bar......perhaps mistakenly. The marks on all of the other gold bars that are described as being found in the Supe's, have always been five dots with lines connecting them that made a crown.

I personally knew a number of men who held LaFrance's gold bar in their hands, so I trust that story implicitly.

Thank's for clearing things up.

Take care, friend,

Joe

I knew you were aware of it, but I figured there may be some folks who were confused. I only recall hearing the 5 dots connected with lines to make a crown being on the one gold bar found by LaFrance - I know there were other stories of gold bars being found, but don't recall any markings having been described.

 

[cactusjumper]

I knew you were aware of it, but I figured there may be some folks who were confused. I only recall hearing the 5 dots connected with lines to make a crown being on the one gold bar found by LaFrance - I know there were other stories of gold bars being found, but don't recall any markings having been described.

Paul,

As I recall, the gold bars found just off the road to First Water Trailhead and Bob Brady's gold bars also had the crown marking. Believe it was Desert Dave who told me the story about the First Water gold bars. Used to have a pretty good memory.

Our best to you and the wife,

Joe

 

[markmar]

Joe

I saw the Cross , and is an Jesuits Cross . The Jesuits used Crosses to mark treasures . Usually they carved a Cross about 500 varas afar from the cave . Now , the direction of the cave is in relation with the Cross and the symbols or numbers which are around the Cross .
In Tumacacori treasure ( Molina's map ) they used the same practice , and in an old map of Tumacacori ( not Molina's ) they used a Jesuit Cross to mark the location . This is the map



Now , the Jake's Cross carved in the rock , has near a symbol of a hill with a mark below . The hill is the region and the mark below is the cave . This mean how the direction to the hill is where is carved in relation with the Cross . This hill is the end of the stone trail .
The question is : Was the Peraltas Jesuits or just used Jesuits practices ?

 

[Matthew Roberts]

Joe

I saw the Cross , and is an Jesuits Cross . The Jesuits used Crosses to mark treasures . Usually they carved a Cross about 500 varas afar from the cave . Now , the direction of the cave is in relation with the Cross and the symbols or numbers which are around the Cross .
In Tumacacori treasure they used the same practice , and in an old map of Tumacacori ( not Molina's ) they used a Jesuit Cross to mark the location . This is the map

View attachment 840667

Now , the Jake's Cross carved in the rock , has near a symbol of a hill with a mark below . The hill is the region and the mark below is the cave . This mean how the direction to the hill is where is carved in relation with the Cross . This hill is the end of the stone trail .
The question is : Was the Peraltas Jesuits or just used Jesuits practices ?

markmar,

Glad you received the photos, please keep in mind the note I sent with them.

Before anyone gets the wrong ideas, the photos of the rock markings, the one that matched the stamp on Crazy Jake's gold bar, were not my photos. Those photos were Walter Gassler's and he gave me copies of them. Walter took those photos so he knew where the rock markings were located. Ellis Schmidt, one of Crazy Jake's hired men, "allegedly" found the markings and showed them to Jake and they matched the marking on Jake's gold bar.

However, I do not believe Schmidt ever actually saw the markings, rather he saw the photos Walter had of the markings and told Crazy Jake about them. Had Schmidt actually seen the markings himself, he, Jake and everyone in Jake's camp would have been all over that site in a heartbeat. To my knowledge Jake never located the site despite his best efforts to find it.

I have my own personal opinion about that site and do not endorse whether or not it is Coptic, Jesuit or any other group. I simply don't know and have no reason to pursue the specifics. The site was Walter's and I respected his rights to it and was glad for what he showed and told me concerning it. I have always felt (my own opinion) that site was where Walter was going in May 1984 when he was found dead in the mountains. He told me he was going to file a claim on the site in December 1983 and asked me to put up a monument marker for him and he would come in as soon as he could to prove up the claim. That was the last I ever talked with him.

As far as Crazy Jakes gold bar goes, I know nothing about it other than what Jake told and showed me which was precious little. I do know that after Ellis Schmidt showed Jake the markings (photo), Jake became fanatical about forcing both Walter and myself off of Peters Mesa.

As for the cave of the gold bars story, five dots over a crown, Harry LaFrance, Bob Brady and others, I have my own opinion but leave the story to those who tell it and have no public comment on it one way or the other.

Matthew K. Roberts