Cortes galleon shipwreck

[bobinsd]

Bob,
I personally knew Don Knight (RIP) and met him often; once on the "Yellow Submarine".
I competed with Knight is locating the BJ; but I could only find hot water pipes that extended from the boiler to other areas in the vessel--and next to BJ rock, no where near where he found her. I gave him my video and we talked for years about what has yet to be found. I'll leave it at that.
Don.....

Damn....I need to revisit more frequently.
Don.....are your videos posted anywhere, or otherwise available. I am planning a visual inspection of the area this fall and it would help to know which areas to NOT target. I assume you probably already surreptiously recovered the safe LOL. Do you have any thoughts on it's location? I think it rolled down the NW side of the rock inside the aft end. As I recall, Don found his coins about a mile from the rock, but only a fraction of what was there. Any info would be appreciated....and rewarded. At 80, what do I need gold for?

Bob

 

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[Mackaydon]

At 82, I ask the same question. As ,mentioned somewhere above, I gave my tapes to DK in the hopes of creating a joint venture with him and returning to the area to look for the safe. His unexpected death stopped that effort. To my knowledge, the safe is still out there.
The tape I saw that DK had taken from the Yellow Submarine did show an object with 90 degree angles lying on the sea floor. He said he made a note of that finding (suggesting it was the safe) but continued on and eventually located the BJ.
I believe at that point in his partnership he was becoming leary of his partners and may have withheld thr location from them. (This is my WAG.).
DK and his lovely wife have now, unfortunately, passed on--though an relative does exist who has possession of DK's tapes.

I haven't followed up for several reasons:
1. I no longer have my boat, the R/V Explorer (Roatan).
2. The legal process to get permission to search and salvage seemed nearly impossible based on California and Fed. laws.
3. I got immersed in my '9 to 5' work.
If you find yourself in North County and wish to share a coffee break, let me know. [email protected].

Don......

 

[bobinsd]

At 82, I ask the same question. As ,mentioned somewhere above, I gave my tapes to DK in the hopes of creating a joint venture with him and returning to the area to look for the safe. His unexpected death stopped that effort. To my knowledge, the safe is still out there.
The tape I saw that DK had taken from the Yellow Submarine did show an object with 90 degree angles lying on the sea floor. He said he made a note of that finding (suggesting it was the safe) but continued on and eventually located the BJ.
I believe at that point in his partnership he was becoming leary of his partners and may have withheld thr location from them. (This is my WAG.).
DK and his lovely wife have now, unfortunately, passed on--though an relative does exist who has possession of DK's tapes.

I haven't followed up for several reasons:
1. I no longer have my boat, the R/V Explorer (Roatan).
2. The legal process to get permission to search and salvage seemed nearly impossible based on California and Fed. laws.
3. I got immersed in my '9 to 5' work.
If you find yourself in North County and wish to share a coffee break, let me know. [email protected].

Don......

I hope t

At 82, I ask the same question. As ,mentioned somewhere above, I gave my tapes to DK in the hopes of creating a joint venture with him and returning to the area to look for the safe. His unexpected death stopped that effort. To my knowledge, the safe is still out there.
The tape I saw that DK had taken from the Yellow Submarine did show an object with 90 degree angles lying on the sea floor. He said he made a note of that finding (suggesting it was the safe) but continued on and eventually located the BJ.
I believe at that point in his partnership he was becoming leary of his partners and may have withheld thr location from them. (This is my WAG.).
DK and his lovely wife have now, unfortunately, passed on--though an relative does exist who has possession of DK's tapes.

I haven't followed up for several reasons:
1. I no longer have my boat, the R/V Explorer (Roatan).
2. The legal process to get permission to search and salvage seemed nearly impossible based on California and Fed. laws.
3. I got immersed in my '9 to 5' work.
If you find yourself in North County and wish to share a coffee break, let me know. [email protected].

Don......

I hope to get to see you, perhaps on my way north. Maybe Dennis Powers or Dwight Manley know of the videos. I call the ROV ISARD, Integrated Search and Retrieval Device. It's not built for speed as you can see,
but to be efficient searching.

 

[bobinsd]

Bob, if you find a gold coin underwater just don't tell anyone and you can keep it.

SALVOR, there's a catch 22 regarding BJ coins. If you just sell the coin it will get market price based on condition only. but a BJ coin is worth multiples, but if I claim it the State may get involved, plus proof of recovery/origin would need to be produced by the seller for the buyer.
at this point, i have no idea what to do, and I don't want to wait until fall to figure my first steps. I assume I will need to issue a COA similar to Mel's. I look forward to the day I can walk in to Dwight Manley's office with a handful of Eagles and say "here!".

Bob
in San Diego
[email protected]

ps.... I don't think the CC Museum has any coins on display. Depending on my outcome, I would be elated to provide them with some nice, shiny Eagles.

 

[Mackaydon]

Hello Bob,
Don K. told me the safe contains gold certificates. If the safe were found, one challenge we discussed was how to salvage the certs without the water inside sloshing around and destroying the frail certs.

Gold certificates were first authorized under the Legal Tender Act of 1863, but they apparently were not printed until 1865. With the sinking of the BJ in 1865, any GC found would be of this first issue.

Gold certificates were made in two sizes—a larger size from 1865 to 1928, and a smaller size beginning with the series of 1928. Therefore, only the larger sized GCs would have been on the BJ.
But (per my research) in the denominations of 10k, 5k, 500 and 100, only three are known to still exist (in $100 GCs).

To salvage these certs (if, in fact they exist), will take time, money and applied research (regarding proper recovery, conservation and preservation techniques). To bring the safe ashore and simple open it would be unthinkable.
Don....
PS: Getting multiple permits to do this operation, if possible, might take longer than my life expectancy. However, showing pics of the safe 'in situ', might encourage the authorities to 'make a deal'.

 

[Mackaydon]

Bob,
Is your ISARD also an ROV or is it simply towed and dragged like a mag?
Don......

 

[bobinsd]

Hello Bob,
Don K. told me the safe contains gold certificates. If the safe were found, one challenge we discussed was how to salvage the certs without the water inside sloshing around and destroying the frail certs.

Gold certificates were first authorized under the Legal Tender Act of 1863, but they apparently were not printed until 1865. With the sinking of the BJ in 1865, any GC found would be of this first issue.

Gold certificates were made in two sizes—a larger size from 1865 to 1928, and a smaller size beginning with the series of 1928. Therefore, only the larger sized GCs would have been on the BJ.
But (per my research) in the denominations of 10k, 5k, 500 and 100, only three are known to still exist (in $100 GCs).

To salvage these certs (if, in fact they exist), will take time, money and applied research (regarding proper recovery, conservation and preservation techniques). To bring the safe ashore and simple open it would be unthinkable.
Don....
PS: Getting multiple permits to do this operation, if possible, might take longer than my life expectancy. However, showing pics of the safe 'in situ', might encourage the authorities to 'make a deal'.

If original certs, I could see where they would have great collectible value. If the state was so interested in protecting the contents, why haven't they done their own recovery. If I recall from Dennis' book I believe their are considerable coins in the safe intended for the Indian tribes up north. Did we own Alaska then

Hello Bob,
Don K. told me the safe contains gold certificates. If the safe were found, one challenge we discussed was how to salvage the certs without the water inside sloshing around and destroying the frail certs.

Gold certificates were first authorized under the Legal Tender Act of 1863, but they apparently were not printed until 1865. With the sinking of the BJ in 1865, any GC found would be of this first issue.

Gold certificates were made in two sizes—a larger size from 1865 to 1928, and a smaller size beginning with the series of 1928. Therefore, only the larger sized GCs would have been on the BJ.
But (per my research) in the denominations of 10k, 5k, 500 and 100, only three are known to still exist (in $100 GCs).

To salvage these certs (if, in fact they exist), will take time, money and applied research (regarding proper recovery, conservation and preservation techniques). To bring the safe ashore and simple open it would be unthinkable.
Don....
PS: Getting multiple permits to do this operation, if possible, might take longer than my life expectancy. However, showing pics of the safe 'in situ', might encourage the authorities to 'make a deal'.

Don,
If I recall correctly from Dennis' book the safe also held much gold for the Indian tribes up north, even though we did not purchase Alaska until 1867. Maybe that was part of the $2 million deal. If the certs were part of the original issue, they certainly would have great collectible value. Somebody must have written the coords of the safe if Don had a video.
apparently between the location of the known location of the front half and the mountain.
I have the coords of the recovery area, so that helps. If I were to find the safe I have already dreamed up a recovery plan, at least for getting it out of the water (8 tons plus the water inside). A fun engineering task, but I have a 54 year old aero degree , so that helps.
I don't think permits are possible. and are they going to throw an 80 year old in jail.

I would rather make a "deal" with Josh Gates or the Oak Island boys.

My ISARD rov has forward/reverse thrusting props for micro-positioning and the same for vertical (negative bouyancy) but also for clearing sand. When the weather improves I will do some testing offshore. Still not sure how 300 feet of cable winds and unwinds while attached to a computer. Maybe the computer just rotates with the spool (BATTERY POWER).

I haven't solved my boat problem yet but I'm sure there are options. Are the local fishermen allowed access to the area? I could probably catch some urchins. LOL.

Thanks for the input. Do you know if there is a small battery powered underwater MD with a visible light that might be attached to the rov. If something is under the sand I could start removing.
Bob

 

[Mackaydon]

$200,000 was payroll money for the troops at Fort Vancouver, Washington Territory.
Source: Lomax, Alfred L. (1892-1982) : "Brother Jonathan: Pioneer Steamship of the Pacific Coast 1959.
Don......

 

[bobinsd]

$200,000 was payroll money for the troops at Fort Vancouver, Washington Territory.
Source: Lomax, Alfred L. (1892-1982) : "Brother Jonathan: Pioneer Steamship of the Pacific Coast 1959.
Don......

Thanks. What would you recommend for recording GPS location? Can GPS be determined underwater?

Bob

 

[Mackaydon]

Consensus of online opinions say GPS underwater doesn't work. but this system would:

Underwater GPS

The global positioning system (GPS) is commonly used on land and in the air to obtain position and timing information. However, the radio frequencies used by GPS cannot penetrate in seawater, requiring a different system for underwater positioning. This information is useful to a variety of...

dosits.org

Don......

 

[bobinsd]

Consensus of online opinions say GPS underwater doesn't work. but this system would:

Underwater GPS

The global positioning system (GPS) is commonly used on land and in the air to obtain position and timing information. However, the radio frequencies used by GPS cannot penetrate in seawater, requiring a different system for underwater positioning. This information is useful to a variety of...

dosits.org

Don......

Thanks, Don.
Im going to need some previous video.
Bob

 

[bobinsd]

If original certs, I could see where they would have great collectible value. If the state was so interested in protecting the contents, why haven't they done their own recovery. If I recall from Dennis' book I believe their are considerable coins in the safe intended for the Indian tribes up north. Did we own Alaska then

Don,
If I recall correctly from Dennis' book the safe also held much gold for the Indian tribes up north, even though we did not purchase Alaska until 1867. Maybe that was part of the $2 million deal. If the certs were part of the original issue, they certainly would have great collectible value. Somebody must have written the coords of the safe if Don had a video.
apparently between the location of the known location of the front half and the mountain.
I have the coords of the recovery area, so that helps. If I were to find the safe I have already dreamed up a recovery plan, at least for getting it out of the water (8 tons plus the water inside). A fun engineering task, but I have a 54 year old aero degree , so that helps.
I don't think permits are possible. and are they going to throw an 80 year old in jail.

I would rather make a "deal" with Josh Gates or the Oak Island boys.

My ISARD rov has forward/reverse thrusting props for micro-positioning and the same for vertical (negative bouyancy) but also for clearing sand. When the weather improves I will do some testing offshore. Still not sure how 300 feet of cable winds and unwinds while attached to a computer. Maybe the computer just rotates with the spool (BATTERY POWER).

I haven't solved my boat problem yet but I'm sure there are options. Are the local fishermen allowed access to the area? I could probably catch some urchins. LOL.

Thanks for the input. Do you know if there is a small battery powered underwater MD with a visible light that might be attached to the rov. If something is under the sand I could start removing.
Bob

I am also hoping to add a look-ahead magnetometer if such a thing exists. Because of the very poor visibility it would be nice to detect an 8 ton chunk of steel that may be wholly under sand, at 300 feet down. I've located some items for under $1000 but they are not worthy. I would monitor the output with one of the cameras and perhaps merge the audio signal with the existing internet link. Any advice is appreciated.

 

[bobinsd]

Consensus of online opinions say GPS underwater doesn't work. but this system would:

Underwater GPS

The global positioning system (GPS) is commonly used on land and in the air to obtain position and timing information. However, the radio frequencies used by GPS cannot penetrate in seawater, requiring a different system for underwater positioning. This information is useful to a variety of...

dosits.org

Don......

Don where in North County are you living? I would like to get your comments/advice on my ISARD. It's my first endeavor.

 

[Mackaydon]

Bob,
Near the Oceanside/Carlsbad border
Don....

 

[bobinsd]

Bob,
Near the Oceanside/Carlsbad border
Don....

Don,
I was just up there last night at a friends 80th birthday party. He has a place overlooking moonlight beach up on the cliff. Great sunsets and dolphins in the water.

Thanks for the PM.
Do you think that the published coords for the wreck are accurate? I'm assuming they are.
The item mentioned might also be the rock crusher. If still visible, I think the overburden can be blown away to expose more. I'm thinking a rope and some airbags could free it up. If it happens, I'll call you.

Thanks again. Are there affordable mags. What distance can a MD be used underwater?

Bob

 

[Mackaydon]

An underwater mag. can go deeper (~200 feet) than a diver unless the diver is on mixed gases --or crazy as I was once.
Don.......

 

[bobinsd]

An underwater mag. can go deeper (~200 feet) than a diver unless the diver is on mixed gases --or crazy as I was once.
Don.......

I won't be doing any diving, just search and possible recovery using the ROV and some suction or rope.

still want to pay you a visit.

Bob

 

[scottleatham]

Don’t really know where to post this but thought I’d share what I observed on the sea floor near Bishop Rock while looking for lobsters during scuba dive.
I was on a chartered scuba diving boat at Cortes Banks less than 10 and observed what I believe was the end or barrel end of a cannon. I was searching the sea floor for structure where lobsters seek protection and noticed what I thought was a medium sized rock structure maybe 6-7’ tall or so?
I looked underneath and sure enough there was a lobster there.
Lobsters love back door escape holes so I left him alone to check for openings I could plug with a rock or?
While rising up from having my head buried beneath the structure I observed a distinct sloping elevation upwards for a distance of at least 30’ or more.
Seemed odd but not as odd as what I noticed next. I observed a long 4-5’ or so rounded object protruding in an upward angle from this structure like all by itself.
When I observed the end away from the structure I immediately thought I’m looking at the end of a cannon. Without a doubt, it was the end of a cannon. My dive partner was with me so I pointed out this grown over object to him as well. Since things get really distorted looking with all the accumulative growth down there I pointed out the longer barrel looking shape first. After that I showed him the barrel end.
I used my finger to show him the outer ring that may have been 10” or so with growth included then I pointed to the center showing him a distinct inner circle also filled in with growth of like 6” or so It was dang interesting and to this day I wished I had a camera with me.
Upon reaching the surface I pulled the regulator of my mouth and said did you see that thing?
He exclaimed that he noticed something like encrusted spokes or something like that near the opening of that structure area where the lobster was hiding.
When I said something about the cannon he says is that what I was trying to show him. I said absolutely! As we talked more he too noticed the sloping flat looking area that angled away and up from the structure or “Cannon Area”.
He saved the GPS coordinates to his devise once we got back on the dive boat while still anchored.
We mentioned it to the dive boat folks and they kinda said that was cool and then noting more.
As we talked more we kinda figured the flat sloping area may have been the deck of the ship? I
I never noticed the spokes but we thought it probably had something to do with the cannon and that it was probably attached to the deck.
Like I said, with so much encrusted stuff growing on everything it’s easy to miss the details. Long addition here but I know what we observed and I’ve always wanted to return for that cannon.

 

[bigmike]

Don’t really know where to post this but thought I’d share what I observed on the sea floor near Bishop Rock while looking for lobsters during scuba dive.
I was on a chartered scuba diving boat at Cortes Banks less than 10 and observed what I believe was the end or barrel end of a cannon. I was searching the sea floor for structure where lobsters seek protection and noticed what I thought was a medium sized rock structure maybe 6-7’ tall or so?
I looked underneath and sure enough there was a lobster there.
Lobsters love back door escape holes so I left him alone to check for openings I could plug with a rock or?
While rising up from having my head buried beneath the structure I observed a distinct sloping elevation upwards for a distance of at least 30’ or more.
Seemed odd but not as odd as what I noticed next. I observed a long 4-5’ or so rounded object protruding in an upward angle from this structure like all by itself.
When I observed the end away from the structure I immediately thought I’m looking at the end of a cannon. Without a doubt, it was the end of a cannon. My dive partner was with me so I pointed out this grown over object to him as well. Since things get really distorted looking with all the accumulative growth down there I pointed out the longer barrel looking shape first. After that I showed him the barrel end.
I used my finger to show him the outer ring that may have been 10” or so with growth included then I pointed to the center showing him a distinct inner circle also filled in with growth of like 6” or so It was dang interesting and to this day I wished I had a camera with me.
Upon reaching the surface I pulled the regulator of my mouth and said did you see that thing?
He exclaimed that he noticed something like encrusted spokes or something like that near the opening of that structure area where the lobster was hiding.
When I said something about the cannon he says is that what I was trying to show him. I said absolutely! As we talked more he too noticed the sloping flat looking area that angled away and up from the structure or “Cannon Area”.
He saved the GPS coordinates to his devise once we got back on the dive boat while still anchored.
We mentioned it to the dive boat folks and they kinda said that was cool and then noting more.
As we talked more we kinda figured the flat sloping area may have been the deck of the ship? I
I never noticed the spokes but we thought it probably had something to do with the cannon and that it was probably attached to the deck.
Like I said, with so much encrusted stuff growing on everything it’s easy to miss the details. Long addition here but I know what we observed and I’ve always wanted to return for that cannon.

Hi Scott, that is very Interesting. Too bad you couldnt have taken some pictures. If you make it back out there again, let me know if you’re able to check it out more. Good luck and keep us posted👍🏼