Cortes galleon shipwreck

[bigmike]

Goodmorning everyone,

I was just wondering if anyone has heard of anyone locating the galleon that supposedly hit Bishop Rock off Cortes off the Southern California coast? Ive been reading some about it but not much information on this wreck. From what ive found it was the Santa Rosa and very deep water around Cortes that ive seen so if it did in fact wreck there it may be in deep water. Just wanted to see if anyone has heard anything recent.

Mike

 

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[Mackaydon]

Welcome to Treasurenet !!
Are you referring to the Cortes Bank, located SW of Cataline Island? I've read reports of up to 5 galleons have been lost near southern California islands. But even if one were found, fat chance of getting the State of California to allow it to be salvaged. You need only review the experience of Bob Marx; and the end result of the Brother Jonathan salvage to see how California would react to a salvage permit request.

Don.........

 

[bigmike]

Hi Don,
Yes that is where I was referring to. I was reading somewhere that it is international waters, so how could California claim it? Maybe I am wrong but im sure that is what I was reading. I was just seeing if anyone has heard anything recent on any of those wrecks. I have read about other galleons wrecking by the Catalina islands but those are a lot closer to California coast where they are in the jurisdiction of the state, Since the Cortes banks are over 100 miles offshore I was thinking they were international. Thanks for the reply Don. Have a good weekend!

Mike

 

[bigmike]

Well, been looking at some info about international waters and am seeing 24 miles up to 200 miles. So I am guessing that its the 200 miles considered international. I believe you are correct about California having jurisdiction in that area. No wonder there is no current information on any of those wrecks out there! When Mel Fisher was looking off the Cortes banks years ago there weren't all these laws that are in effect today. I doubt that anyone will be able to pursue any of those wrecks.

 

[Mackaydon]

Mike,
You may be right about the Cortes Bank not being under California jurisdiction.
Here's an interesting sidebar:
"Among other notable events in the history of the Cortes Bank is the fairly disastrous exploration of the Bank for treasure in 1957 by Mel Fisher. He was convinced that the wreckage of a Spanish Galleon lay on the seafloor off the Bishop Rock. The expedition found no treasure, but the ship carrying Fisher burned nearly to her waterline."
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortes_Bank
Don...

 

[bigmike]

Don...I was looking at a nautical chart which shows maritime boundries and it is showing the boundry ending just east of the Cortes Bank. It may not be in the jurisdiction of California. I am not finding anything that is absolutely factual showing whether or not it is.
I have been looking through forums to see if anyone has ever found any kind of objects of a shipwreck of that era off Cortes. No luck so far. Its interesting when you really start looking into something

 

[Mackaydon]

Mike,
What made me think the Bank is under the jurisdiction of Calif. is this excerpt from WIKI:
" It is considered the outermost feature in California's Channel Islands chain."
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cortes_Bank
Don.

 

[bigmike]

Don,
Interesting...it sure looks like it is within their jurisdiction! These days its all this grey area that makes things difficult! Thanks for the info Don.
Have a good night.

Mike

 

[Bum Luck]

United States. Congress. Senate. Committee on Interior and Insular Affairs. Special Subcommittee on Outer Continental Shelf - 1970 - ‎Snippet view - ‎More editions
In a letter opinion of February 1, 1967, from the Deputy Solicitor of the Department of Interior to the Corps of Engineers, it is made clear that the Department is of the view that Cortez Bank is an area under United States jurisdiction .......

 

[bigmike]

interesting! Thanks for the information. I will have to read the entire documents.

Mike

 

[Steve Lawson]

Aside from the San Agustin lost somewhere off the SF Bay area in 1595. there is no archival or physical evidence to suggest that any galleon has been lost off what is now California. As for the Cortes Bank, the US has claimed it within its jurisdiction. The State of California's boundary ends at three miles out to sea and since Bishop is 15' below the surface, there is no land mass there and no California jurisdiction. Now if you were actually to find galleon off Cortes, that might change...

 

[bigmike]

Hi Steve,

I was wondering where the boundary line was at. The only line I have seen as far as international waters boundary was a line just to the east of Cortes Bank, and that is about 100 miles out. Been doing a lot of online research and reading about the wreck supposedly off of Cortes. Mel Fisher had looked for it in the 50s before the Atocha expedition. He seemed to think that there was a wreck out there but its vast and very rough seas in that area. Im sure you are correct, if one is found all the sudden it would be claimed as California jurisdiction!
Thank you for that info!

 

[bobinsd]

Welcome to Treasurenet !!
Are you referring to the Cortes Bank, located SW of Cataline Island? I've read reports of up to 5 galleons have been lost near southern California islands. But even if one were found, fat chance of getting the State of California to allow it to be salvaged. You need only review the experience of Bob Marx; and the end result of the Brother Jonathan salvage to see how California would react to a salvage permit request.

Don.........

Don, Do you have a copy of The Treasure Ship by Dennis Powers. Its the story of the BJ. I'm done with mine.
Bob

 

[bobinsd]

What happens if I'm searching for sea urchins off CA coast and find gold coins. Can I keep them or have to wait for CA to approve removal?

 

[bigmike]

What happens if I'm searching for sea urchins off CA coast and find gold coins. Can I keep them or have to wait for CA to approve removal?

I don’t think you can even collect sea urchins unless you have a permit…which is incredibly difficult to obtain these days!

 

[bobinsd]

I don’t think you can even collect sea urchins unless you have a permit…which is incredibly difficult to obtain these days!

I would think just a fishing license.

What if I'm free diving for urchins and I find coins. If they were on the beach I could keep them, but underwater??
Thoughts?

 

[Salvor6]

Bob, if you find a gold coin underwater just don't tell anyone and you can keep it.

 

[bobinsd]

I don’t think you can even collect sea urchins unless you have a permit…which is incredibly difficult to obtain these days!

Big Mike, where are you in OR? Do you have a boat?

 

[Porthole]

As for the question if Cortes Bank is under the jurisdiction of California, that is a mute discussion anyway because Cortes Bk is captured within the 200 Nauti. mile EEZ, so you would be dealing with the Federal Gov. Furthermore, there are a lot more entertaining words written about California galleons than there are galleons (actually singular, not plural) See Steve's post of Nov. 15, 2018.

 

[Mackaydon]

Bob,
I personally knew Don Knight (RIP) and met him often; once on the "Yellow Submarine".
I competed with Knight is locating the BJ; but I could only find hot water pipes that extended from the boiler to other areas in the vessel--and next to BJ rock, no where near where he found her. I gave him my video and we talked for years about what has yet to be found. I'll leave it at that.
Don.....