Copper sheathing usage

[pcolaboy]

I'm a bit confused on some of the information I've found regarding the use of copper sheathing on sailing ships. Some information that I've read states that copper-bottomed hulls were usually only found on millitary ships or those belonging to the elite due to the expense and that commercial shipping rarely used it.

How likely would it be that an average commercial sailing vessel built from the mid to late 1800's would have been copper sheathed? I know of a wreck that has very heavy gauge copper sheathing laying around it along with handmade copper nails in addition to bronze tree spikes and bronze driftpins laying nearby - this is NOT Muntz metal either. The state archaeologist said that a brief, superficial survey was done on the wreck and that it was believed to be that of a schooner grounded by a hurricane in 1906. The vessel is approximately 130' long by 28' beam based on measurements taken along the heavily detriorated outline of the vessel that stick up out of the sand by about 6". The area has had dredge spoil piled on it for years and it gets exposed after every hurricane.

I'm just curious to know if the presence of so much copper sheathing and bronze spikes would suggest that this wreck may be something other than what I was told - disinformation is a tactic commonly used by the archies up in my area. The site has not been publicly revealed or published even though state funding and assets were used for their survey. I wrote the FHC to request all documents related to this survey but they would only do it if I signed my life away saying that I would not visit the site. What's up with that?

Thanks,

Pcola

 

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[FISHEYE]

pcola,

Use the sunshine law or the freedom of information act to get the docs you need.Its public info put together by state workers that the public needs to know and not to be kept secret for thier personal endevors.

 

[littleneckhalfshell]

how common would copper sheathing be?
well consider the alternative....
without the copper, (which is a natural plant/animal deterent) the wood eating worms found in the water would soon eat through the wood planking and the boat would sink.
Yes, it was and is expensive, but until the days of Iron hulls, or other stuff today, you had to protect the wood or lose the ship.

Iron hulls only started to come on the time line around the American Civil War 1860-1865, so before and indeed after that time period, it was wooden ships. Until other coatings were developed, you still needed to protect the hull. Tar was used on smaller vessels, but the big ships usually went with copper. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_sheathing for more information.

 

[pcolaboy]

how common would copper sheathing be?
well consider the alternative....
without the copper, (which is a natural plant/animal deterent) the wood eating worms found in the water would soon eat through the wood planking and the boat would sink.
Yes, it was and is expensive, but until the days of Iron hulls, or other stuff today, you had to protect the wood or lose the ship.

Iron hulls only started to come on the time line around the American Civil War 1860-1865, so before and indeed after that time period, it was wooden ships. Until other coatings were developed, you still needed to protect the hull. Tar was used on smaller vessels, but the big ships usually went with copper. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_sheathing for more information.

I'm well acquainted with the purposes of sheathing hull bottoms on wooden ships and very familiar with different types of sheathing used over the centurys, such as lead, sacrificial wood sheathing, tar/pitch, varying alloys of brass such as Muntz metal etc. etc.

My point was that from what I've read, pure Copper Sheathing wasn't used much after Muntz metal (approximately 50% copper and 50% zinc) became widely available in the 1840's. Therefore, I suspect the odds are lower that the remains of the wooden shipwreck in question was really lost in the 1906 or 1926 hurricanes in my area. Of course I'm not saying it isn't possible, it's just less likely.

This wreck is very nearshore in the bay and if it were from the hurricanes mentioned, it would have been more thoroughly stripped of its copper sheathing and bronze fasteners by the locals like the several dozen other ships were according to the historical accounts and photographs I'm familiar with. I'm talking sheets of pure copper approximately 6 feet long by 3 feet high and 1/16" thick that are still mostly attached to the recently uncovered portions of the hull that remain intact.

Thanks for the input,

Pcola

 

[PhipsFolly]

Pcola... definately use the Florida Sunshine Law to obtain the info from the state. It is your right as a tax paying citizen to have access to a public funded survey. Besides, its about time that "we the people" start putting pressure on the government to "help them understand that they work for us and not the other way around". I would guess that "they" will probably continue to stonewall your requests... its up to you how far you want to take the issue of their uncooperative behavior, but it sure would be nice to see 'em put in there place. Good Luck!

 

[RELICDUDE07]

Keep peckin at the history of it pcola,i think its older also..They say things to keep people away ... Notice how they never find any coins on wrecks in the area, just a bunch of busted up pottery Goodluck and keep us posted..Relic

 

[ivan salis]

the sunshine laws open records with one noted exception *--in 2001 a clause was passed to except the archie records that might reveal the location of a wreck and promote looting --- in other words ---no you mr and mrs john q public can not see our ship wreck files that we spend your tax money on to get / make / maintain --- cuz we had a "exception" to the law passed for us to hide stuff from you --- have a nice day .

I know of several 1810 to 1816 era british lumber trade vessels that had bronze nails and copper hull sheathing -- it was plate it or suffer the worms eatting holes thru your hulls and sea weed growing to the wood --copper is toxic somewhat to sea plant life -- micro fine powdered copper is still used in anti fouling (under water hull) paints to this day

 

[pcolaboy]

--copper is toxic somewhat to sea plant life -- micro fine powdered copper is still used in anti fouling (under water hull) paints to this day

I know copper itself is toxic to trees, but from what I've read the petina that forms on copper is what's toxic to marine life. Either way great stuff

Pcola