cool old spot.....but a big no-no for my area

[oknorom]

i would discreetly hit it at night, even if it was posted private property. don't get me wrong, i'm a law-abiding, contributing member of society.

Uhhhh.....what?

Websters Dictionary

hypocrite

1 : a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion
2 : a person who acts in contradiction to his or her stated beliefs or feelings


Open mouth...insert foot.

Jim

hi, jim.

mmm. i love foot.

i know, that was an obvious discrepency. BUT what i meant is that i'm not a criminal type. i would never hunt someone's private yard without their permission. i would never hit a vacant home for rent without permission. BUT i WOULD hit a boarded up house that was vacant and in disrepair without permission. we have lots of those around, mostly in sketchy, old downtown areas. it's called urban blight. i don't ask permission to hunt schools, parks, vacant lots...and i, personally, would not ask permission to hunt the abandoned college at the top of this post.

 

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[lockman209]

I too am a law enforcement officer. If I got a call in ref to someone trespassing with a metal detector, I would also arrest
them. I want every TH'r to continue abiding by the Code of ethics so I can continue to TH. Just my 3 cents worth.

 

[Rockfshr]

here is the Virginia code on trespassing.Seems if you don't want someone on your property it needs to be posted.
Virginia Code § 18.2-119 defines the crime of trespassing as follows:

If any person without authority of law goes upon or remains upon the lands, buildings or premises of another, or any portion or area thereof, after having been forbidden to do so, either orally or in writing, by the owner, lessee, custodian or other person lawfully in charge thereof, or after having been forbidden to do so by a sign or signs posted by such persons or by the holder of any easement or other right-of-way authorized by the instrument creating such interest to post such signs on such lands, structures, premises or portion or area thereof at a place or places where it or they may be reasonably seen, or if any person, whether he is the owner, tenant or otherwise entitled to the use of such land, building or premises, goes upon, or remains upon such land, building or premises after having been prohibited from doing so by a court of competent jurisdiction by an order issued pursuant to §§ 16.1-253, 16.1-253.1, 16.1-253.4, 16.1-278.2 through 16.1-278.6, 16.1-278.8, 16.1-278.14, 16.1-278.15, 16.1-279.1, 19.2-152.8, 19.2-152.9 or § 19.2-152.10 or an ex parte order issued pursuant to § 20-103, and after having been served with such order, he shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor. This section shall not be construed to affect in any way the provisions of §§ 18.2-132 through 18.2-136.

The issue in many trespassing cases is twofold: has proper notice been provided that the person is not welcome in a particular area and exactly what area is the person prohibited from entering. The code identifies potentially four different ways in which notice of no trespassing may be accomplished. The four ways are: by oral request by a person in authority, by written request by a person in authority, by a posted sign in an area where it may reasonably be seen, by court order pursuant to specific code sections, even if the order is ex parte. An ex parte order is an order entered by a judge where the person who is the subject of the order is not present at the time the order is entered. For a person to be convicted of trespassing after the entering of an ex parte order, that person must have actually been served with a copy of the order. This means a sheriff or other properly authorized individual, delivered a copy of the order to the person who is the subject of the no trespass provision. A written or oral no trespass request can be for both public and private locations. For instance, places of business can request a person not to return to their location. Even a city can request that an individual not return to a certain park or parks. However, a private business can’t ban a person from an area that is public access nor can a city ban a person from an area when doing so would interfere with a constitutionally protected right.

 

[El Cooter]

When I was younger and could run fast, yea! Now I would be worried the whole time. Not worth it.

 

[slowreaper]

Interesting.... But don't understand the arguement... If it is posted then you don't hunt with out written permission... simple as that abandoned or not.

Brad

 

[BuckleBoy]

Interesting.... But don't understand the arguement... If it is posted then you don't hunt with out written permission... simple as that abandoned or not.

Brad

Well said, Brad.

 

[rebelLT]

Hmmm. Makes me wonder about some of the hunting I’ve done before. Seriously though, Criminal trespass (the law) is different in most states, and even some cities within a state. I won’t go over what has already been said. I will only add that, in some jurisdictions, the area needs to be clearly posted as to reasonably come to the attention of someone entering the property (so maybe you should find an approach to the old school where you don’t see no trespassing signs ). Where I live, you can also be charged with trespassing if you cross a fence or other means of inclosing a property from trespassing. PLUS, there are statutes some places that govern trespass hunting. This generally applies only to hunting on property (though I don’t think that applies to hunting for old coins). Some states use the purple paint markings to indicate that no hunting is allowed on the property.
I myself generally ask for permission, even if something is not posted. Though I understand that, at least where I am at, you can hunt someone else’s property and not be trespassing. I guess it comes down to what risks you are willing to take. I suppose though that if you found anything you could be charged with theft or criminal damage. I would suspect that the worst thing that would happen would be getting ran off.
I too am a law enforcement officer. I cant honestly say that I would arrest someone for trespassing when they were metal detecting. I would run them off first. I would probably give them a notice to appear in court, if they were truly trespassing, and the owner was grumpy and wanted "something done". I don’t normally deal with these kind of things though, as I am a detective and kinda focus more on “serious” things, such as people getting shot, robbed, raped etc . Kinda puts things in perspective when you see someone metal detecting in an old abandoned lot full of syringes. Just my ten cents worth.

 

[la9]

I too am a law enforcement officer. If I got a call in ref to someone trespassing with a metal detector, I would also arrest
them. I want every TH'r to continue abiding by the Code of ethics so I can continue to TH. Just my 3 cents worth.

I understand the law is the law, but you are going to arrest someone no an's if's or but's ?

Someone is just being dumb one weekend out with their kid and trespass maybe even accidentally, you show up , arrest them, cuff them, haul them away, traumatize the kid cause their parent got arrested. Nowadays alot of places won't hire if you've been arrested.

I'm just saying is it worth it to traumatize a kid, ruin someone's future employment all over a little metal detecting incident ?

Then wonder why no one trusts cops anymore........

Cause the law is the law and there is no grey area...........................

 

[Montana Jim]

I too am a law enforcement officer. If I got a call in ref to someone trespassing with a metal detector, I would also arrest
them. I want every TH'r to continue abiding by the Code of ethics so I can continue to TH. Just my 3 cents worth.

I understand the law is the law, but you are going to arrest someone no an's if's or but's ?

Someone is just being dumb one weekend out with their kid and trespass maybe even accidentally, you show up , arrest them, cuff them, haul them away, traumatize the kid cause their parent got arrested. Nowadays alot of places won't hire if you've been arrested.

I'm just saying is it worth it to traumatize a kid, ruin someone's future employment all over a little metal detecting incident ?

Then wonder why no one trusts cops anymore........

Cause the law is the law and there is no grey area...........................

The age old question every cop and lawyer studies... the "grey area".

Give a little credit to those of us (on this forum) in law enforcement, there is never a situation that isn't looked at for what it is... The ISSUE here is "tresspassing" on posted private property - not how much force is applied after the person is discovered to traumatize children.

Again I say; "No permission? Get off my lawn."

 

[EDDE]

oknorom=moronko

 

[Ima Swinger]

I think the problem here may be with "authority". Some people have that "no one is going to tell me what to do" attitude, whether it's with law enforcement or a "POSTED" sign, and nothing that is said in this forum is going to change that guys mind. But it was worth the try.
So to the officers who are part of this discussion, you may be right, but you've likely lost this battle. I mean no disrespect to oknorom, but like it or not, the rest of your fellow TH'ers suffer from this laps in common sense.

I'd say "That's my 2 cents", but who am I kidding? I don't have any.

 

[Ray S ECenFL]

My suggestion is to locate the current owner and request permission to metal detect the property. Most they can do is say no. It could work out and they say yes.

Please do not trespass. Put youself in the place of the current property owner. How would you react if someone was trespassing on YOUR property and has gone so far as to ignore the prominently placed posted signs? If I was that property owner, you would be talking to the judge. Not only would your life become very adventurous, but you would give the hobby a bad name. The newpapers would have a field day with it.

Just my opinion, but then again, I am not very "adventurous".

Happy "legal" hunting.

 

[LukeTHr]

Another thing to take into consideration is this. When you don't have permission it will be much more difficult to concentrate on detecting and you will always be looking over your shoulder. In light of that, you won't be finding things like you normally would. It just isn't worth your time and tarnishing the reputation of each and every person the swings a detector in the process. Remember, a few bad apples can spoil it for everyone.

 

[eagle77]

In Nebraska the law is that it has to be "communicated" in order to trespass. A barrier - fence, signs, or verbal/written communication. It is also viewed that the "barrier" is applied using the "reasonable, prudent person" standard. The case of this abandoned college clearly would scream No Trespassing.

There are a couple MD'ers around here that have made it very difficult for us. They view it as long as it is not posted or asked to leave private property, they can hunt anywhere they want. It took me 2 years to get limited permission to hunt on a piece of property..I finally was able to go and hunt only on one specific site, since then they gave me permission to hunt on another site. I have to spend extra time repairing the damage and the black eye MD'ers in general have taken because of these people. I am hoping that sooner or later I can hit the one site that I have my eye on...but I have to mend the damage already done first. What it boils down to is respect.

Maybe I'm too much like "Dad"

 

[jorge del norte]

oh......i not going to hunt it......even though my friend fishes there......

 

[outraged]

Well i can not speak about your area but here in NY. If the property is not posted then you are free to do what you wish. If it is posted you should not visit it.But you still can legaly....In NY in order to be charged with trespassing unless your breaking into the place...You must be first asked to leave. I know this because last year i was hunting deer in the same property i have for the last 10000 years. Well little did i know the owner who gave me permission died...(poor man) and the new owner is a animal lover/tree hugger type. Well needless to say they should have posted their property because when the state police showed up they said..Sir were going to ask you to leave. The owner does not allow hunting on this property. Well i said no problem... i was unaware the ownership had changed hands. Just as i was loading the big Doe i shot into the back of the truck the owner showed up....Well after seeing bambi's mom laying dead she almost had a heart attack!! She demanded that i get arrested....The officer told her it is not going to happen unless i come back to the property...And that is when i learned you must be asked to leave before anything can be done. Now if there is a fence they can perhaps do more...If you climb it or open a gate. But i would suggest good old fashioned BS. Find the owner of the school and tell them your grandmother went to that school and lost her mothers ring...Tell them how she is sick and dying and if you found the ring you could make her final days happy...if even just for a minute...HEHE. That is what i would do..... (well maybe a different story...) but you get the point.

 

[relic lover]

If it is posted I stay out this is out of respect. But I must say I respect farmers and private land owners a lot more than robberbarons and mining outfits who own vast tracts of land they never even see except to rape it for lumber or coal or gas. That is when it is a grey area for me if it is not properly posted and it is very remote I go , I am only human I do get tempted. I would not go after dark 1 you might meet some real criminals and 2 it makes us all look bad in my opinion.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Interesting topic. Maybe CA is just more litigical, but you can here ask till you're blue in the face here, and you'll rarely get permission to go anywhere. All demolition sites are fenced now. I remember when they were wide open when I first got into this hobby. Mind you, it's not that any contractor or property owner cares that someone might cart off a wheat penny (that's about to be covered by 5 ft. of fill, or hauled away in trucks, or whatever), it's only fenced because no one wants to get sued if you slip on a banana peel. And the minute some demolition contractor says "sure, help yourself", he can get sued if you get hurt. So we/I merely wait till after 5pm, and help myself.

An example was when the local public high school, built 1919, underwent rennovations some years back. The inner grass court, where hundreds of kids have eaten lunch for 70+ yrs, was slated to be scraped out. As usual, when the demolition started, they put the obligatory fence around it. Someone from out club tried and tried to get permission from the city bureaucracy, to get in there and metal detect. They got a "no". Imagine their surprise, when they show up at the next club meeting, to see fistfuls of silver on the display table, by those of us that just helped themselves (the gate was merely bailing wire shut). Mind you, we were in full view of Main St. traffic, and afterschool personell merely waved hello. One janitor came by night after night to see our latest finds, and never said a thing about fences or whatever. Sure, maybe this public school example was a bit more innocuous than 1) a non-public demo, or 2) an private abandoned ruin, etc... But I think it makes a point that if you ask around long enough, someone's gonna tell you that you can't even pick your own nose.

Ivan and ThT2000, whenever this subject comes up, someone's bound to rail on about jail and confiscated detectors. Be honest, when was the last time you ever heard of an md'r get arrested, confiscations, etc....? I suppose if you can cite an example, it was no doubt someone who was being a nuisance, couldn't take a warning, and was night-sneaking sensitive historical stuff. And if you CAN cite an instance of someone getting ruffed up for something otherwise, I would say that's the rare exception. I mean, afterall, sometimes a policeman roughs up a guy, pepper-sprays him, etc... a for a tail-light infraction. Does that stop you from driving?

 

[Nashces]

Well I would also go the route of researching the owner and getting permission.




But being a Bowhunter and having camo that covers me from head to toe makes it tempting hehe

 

[ivan salis]

me I have a differant approach ---ask "why" you cannot hunt ---make the give you a "reason" if they say "liabilty" offer to have your club members sign a "release" to gain access-- they wouldn't be able to say --you'll tear up the grass--its being tore up already-if they cannot come up with a sound reason but just say "no" because I said so---ask why you are being discrimanated against by not being "allowed" access after hours to enjoy your hobby---say the football and baseball leagues are often given "free rein" to these propeties after hours and you expect equal and fair treatment--say it nicely but firmly--go to to the county "board" meetings and ask on the record if need be.(take a large bucket of can slaw and busted glass and juck that you've removed from the local school yards and parks and explain how removing such "hazardous items--makes things safer for everyone and "lowers" the chances of some one getting hurt on the property---they said no already so what do you lose ---to ask "why" politely yet firmly--thats my take---I have "won" over the local school super of my county schools talking to him about "the history" of the local area schools and such.--work to change bad policy then reap the benefits of that change----yes its a bit of work but well worth the rewards--Ivan