Contract in the DR

[Alexandre]

I have read through the thousands of accounts regarding ships sunk in WWII. The ammount of ammunition, fuel, oil and other toxic debris is staggering.
Should they be removed? I would say the frontier between a salvage and an archaeological operation depends on years passed.
But then, what shall we do with USS Arizona, in Pearl Harbour... shall we use its remains for decorative art? Or salvage it, because it is poluting Hawaii?

Alexandre, I have a question: What is a shipwreck, or what is just some wreckage that could be recycled.
Recycled because it is harmful to the environment, the fish and other sea life and through the food chain finally harmful to people.
Examples, mercury, lead, copper etc.
Or recycled for art and decoration, like brass ship nails, copper sheeting, worm eaten timber.
A specific example:
Along the Gulf Stream, on the edge of the Bahama Banks, thousands of ships got wrecked. At South Riding Rocks, there is a ballast pile on the west side of the rock.
There is the bottom of a 1900's large ship on the East side of the rock. Fairly new timbers, oak, 3-4 inch planking. 10 inch brass, square nails. Really fantastic stuff to recycle and make into decorative art.
Then, also on the east side, old copper pins scattered over acres of sea bottom. Obviously the remains of an old shipwreck.
Scattered over the whole area, iron rigging, pins and nails from different shipwrecks.
Digging in the sand one finds nails and pins attached to pieces of burned wood, showing that the wreckers of old burned the shipwrecks to recycle whatever metals they could save.
Then there was a trail of lead ingots about 3-4 pounds each, starting at the South end of the rock and continuing, I don't know how far to the East. I suspect it to be ballast from a more modern boat or Yacht. I picked up 104 of them, that was all I could carry.
Lead is very harmful to all creatures and should always be removed, recycled!!!!!!

There are no anchors or cannon anywhere nearby.

There are hundreds of similar sites all along the Bahama Banks.
Should these areas or sites be considered as shipwrecks?
Should these sites be cleaned up of harmful debris?
Should these sites be free for all?

 

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[KANACKI]

I have read through the thousands of accounts regarding ships sunk in WWII. The ammount of ammunition, fuel, oil and other toxic debris is staggering.
Should they be removed? I would say the frontier between a salvage and an archaeological operation depends on years passed.
But then, what shall we do with USS Arizona, in Pearl Harbour... shall we use its remains for decorative art? Or salvage it, because it is poluting Hawaii?

Hola amigos

I have lived in the federated States of Micronesia for the last 30 odd years. In trunk lagoon we have a time bomb of a environmental problem. It seems contentious issue with no easy answer.

It was one of the most dramatic and defining moments of a world at war. American fighter aircraft relentlessly strafing and bombing Japan's naval stronghold in the western Pacific. When it was over - and it was over in a relative flash - 200 thousand tonnes of Japan's mightiest sea power sat motionless on the bottom of what had been strategic bastion. 1000 Japanese personnel were killed. The lagoon floor was transformed into a macabre and haunting graveyard of ships, aircraft, trucks and tanks.

Over time and as the horrors of war receded into history it became a must see for scuba divers the world over. A dreadful battleground became an undersea wonderland and the tourist traffic became a vital economic fillip for the islanders of who call Chuuk - a tiny smattering of Micronesia - home.

The rapidly rusting and deteriorating hulks lurk tonnes upon tonnes of thick black oil. It's estimated there maybe 32 millions of litres down there from what records survive, it's likely to be disgorged in the next few years. Or even sooner should a storm fierce enough crack the fragile steel shells.

It is not clear who will foot the bill. Japan or United States? Its their crap and their doing but its the islanders that left footing the bill. The vessels are Japanese but in foreign territory, and the Chuukese government is unlikely to have sufficient funds.The situation is most likely to repeat itself around the Pacific over coming years? A lot of these wrecks are in areas where the communities just do not have the resources to deal with oil pollution.

There has to be a compromise between archeology and Salvage while the wrecks have bought economic prosperity in situ , it has also raised a health issues via the food chain. . Benzene is a natural part of crude oil and can be found in gasoline and diesel fuel.

Very low levels of benzene have been detected in fruits, vegetables, nuts, dairy products, eggs and fish. Most people are exposed to only very tiny amounts of benzene from water and food. However the islanders are mostly dependent on fish from the lagoon as their main source of protein. They are facing higher levels of benzene exposure as more of this oil begins to leak out into the environment and food chain.

Benzene, 71-43-2) This product contains the following chemical(s) at >=0.1% that are listed as carcinogenic compounds. Therefore this product is considered to be carcinogenic. (Considered to be carcinogenic to humans (group 1) by IARC.

Medical practitioners throughout Micronesia believe that the rates of cancer are high, an impression supported by the fact that malignant neoplasms are the second or third-ranked cause of death in the Federated States of Micronesia and Chucck state where trunk lagoon is situated is the highest by far.

While debate about archeological preservation versus salvage continues please give a thought to those left to deal with the toxic legacy of such shipwrecks.

Kanacki

 

[Boatlode]

what shall we do with USS Arizona, in Pearl Harbour... shall we use its remains for decorative art? Or salvage it, because it is poluting Hawaii?

USS Arizona is a war grave. And you, my friend, can thank the brave American soldiers who are buried all over Europe that you aren't speaking German now.

 

[Black Duck]

This process has been in the workings since 2017.

In 2019, the Constitutional Court of the DR declared the UNESCO Convention to be in accordance with the DR internal laws, so all obstacles were removed:


https://tribunalsitestorage.blob.core.windows.net/media/21500/tc-0612-19-tc-02-2019-0005.pdf

Remember: you read it first here.

I am not clear here, are you trying to say the DR has signed an agreement with unesco other than repairing old historical buildings, and few other, So u are trying to say they changed the constitution as in UNESCO has control of Underwater heritage in the DR.

Could you point that out for me, you seem to know so much about the DR

 

[agflit]

I have read through the thousands of accounts regarding ships sunk in WWII. The ammount of ammunition, fuel, oil and other toxic debris is staggering.
Should they be removed? I would say the frontier between a salvage and an archaeological operation depends on years passed.
But then, what shall we do with USS Arizona, in Pearl Harbour... shall we use its remains for decorative art? Or salvage it, because it is poluting Hawaii?

Apples and oranges.....last I heard, no 17/18th century wrecks carried bunker oil, tons of modern ammunition, or modern carcinogens in bulk quantity's.... much less were involved in a modern world war.

 

[Smithbrown]

Boatlode- Portugal was neutral in the Second World War; otherwise the plot of Casablanca is pointless....

 

[Boatlode]

Boatlode- Portugal was neutral in the Second World War; otherwise the plot of Casablanca is pointless....

As if that would have made a difference if Hitler was allowed to keep Europe.

Actually Portugal should be even MORE grateful since they did nothing to assist in their liberation.

I will not stand for foreigners disrespecting American war graves.

 

[Alexandre]

That is what Mel Fisher did, by looting a State foreign ship that was also a sea grave.

Anyhow, thanks to the Conquistadores, in 50 years the USA will not be speaking German but Spanish.

As if that would have made a difference if Hitler was allowed to keep Europe.

Actually Portugal should be even MORE grateful since they did nothing to assist in their liberation.

I will not stand for foreigners disrespecting American war graves.

 

[Alexandre]

Actually, Portugal was by then a fascist society and it was rooting for the Germans.

As if that would have made a difference if Hitler was allowed to keep Europe.

Actually Portugal should be even MORE grateful since they did nothing to assist in their liberation.

I will not stand for foreigners disrespecting American war graves.

 

[agflit]

That is what Mel Fisher did, by looting a State foreign ship that was also a sea grave.

Anyhow, thanks to the Conquistadores, in 50 years the USA will not be speaking German but Spanish.

Semantics are EVERYTHING ....WAR GRAVE...not Sea grave. Why must you insist on modifying statements?

 

[agflit]

Sure glad that Portugal sits on such a high throne....




It is billed as a pioneer project to safeguard Portim?o’s underwater heritage, but what it boils down to is a group of modern-day treasure hunters with metal detectors unearthing forgotten bits and pieces from the past, the best of which are all going on show at Portim?o Museum.
Project Ipsiis actually begun 14 years ago – with a core group of just three ‘Indiana Joneses’. Now there are 20, and the treasures they have discovered can all be seen on the group’s website www.ipsiis.net
In a bid to ensure the treasure-hunting continues, with its untold benefits for the local museum, a new agreement has been forged to ensure Ipsiis members at all levels get the necessary permissions to use metal detectors in and around the town’s Arade River and nearby Ria do Alvor estuary.
This far, over 700 artefacts have been found in the area – going back as far as the Chalcolithic (Copper Age) period. Following dredging along the banks of the Arade, expectations that there’s more to find are running high.
“This cooperation between a museum in the Portuguese Network of Museums and a group of citizens interested in cultural heritage will allow for the safeguarding of treasures that would otherwise be irredeemably lost, and assure their deposit, conservation and inventory while promoting scientific knowledge and public awareness.”

 

[Jolly Mon]

That is what Mel Fisher did, by looting a State foreign ship that was also a sea grave.

Anyhow, thanks to the Conquistadores, in 50 years the USA will not be speaking German but Spanish.

First off, The DR is STILL NOT a member state to the 2001 Unesco Convention on the Protection of Underwater Cultural Heritage.

Nothing in the 46 pages of documents you linked changes that.

It says much about the legacy of the Conquistadores that about half of Latin America is living in the United States illegally just for the chance to mow our lawns and dig our ditches for below minimum wage.

But a backlash is coming. And in 50 years the United States will be an English speaking country. Probably and finally, officially so.

 

[ARC]

That is what Mel Fisher did, by looting a State foreign ship that was also a sea grave.

Anyhow, thanks to the Conquistadores, in 50 years the USA will not be speaking German but Spanish.

This is asinine Alex... in both statements...

I know that you consider what Mel Fisher accomplished where others failed as "looting"...

When in fact the proper word would be "salvage"... Which has been going on since man could bend over and pick something up.

LONG before any "rules" were implemented by the control freaks that sit and daydream about what someone like Mel actually went out and did...

And now we ALL know and see Atocha's story and glory as opposed to rotting and piracy.

Like you said above... "There are those in the know".

 

[Boatlode]

Anyhow, thanks to the Conquistadores, in 50 years the USA will not be speaking German but Spanish.

You may be right, but the conquistadors had little to do with it. You can blame Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Monroe, Adams, and the rest of the Founders for creating the most free and prosperous nation in the history of the world. Unfortunately the Marxists have seized power in the U.S. through a rigged election (just like the ones in Cuba, Venezuela, and the other banana republics).

 

[ARC]

The Conquistadors savagely blasted through this land driven by the extreme lust of gold... killing anything that stood in the way of it... or anyone who possessed it... they romped and pillaged others possessions to feed / fuel their own selfish greeds.

They did not barter... or trade for it... they STOLE and killed for it.

I think there is no "thanks" due for anything they did.

Don't kid yourself or try to justify it as being anything more than it is...

And... I know... out of respect to you... It's your heritage to try and justify and defend...

BUT... it is... what it was.

To them... if it had no gold... OR couldn't be used to obtain it... to move it... store it... protect it... it was worthless.

They had little interest in anything else and sold the lands they conquered to pay for more.

Now...

As far a US speaking German... lol

Um... the evil animals they became prevented them from ever taking this land... FOR...

Good will prevail in the end.

And it did.

 

[aquanut]

As of March 2021
https://en.unesco.org/system/files/countries/dom_facts_figures_0.pdf

The DR would have to change the constitution in order to Give UNESCO control and that would be treason, So could it happen ?
Also No contracts can be given until the case with ARS/GME is over, Is the DR done ? I can tell you who is not going to get a contract, and maybe who will but that is for another day.

I read through all that and wonder... What is it that benefits the DR? I see nothing.

 

[Alexandre]

Told you so...

https://deultimominuto.net/republic...patrimonio-cultural-subacuatico-de-la-unesco/

First off, The DR is STILL NOT a member state to the 2001 Unesco Convention on the Protection of Underwater Cultural Heritage.

Nothing in the 46 pages of documents you linked changes that.