Continuum

[markmar]

It's been done a few times Marius by different people.....maybe even more than I know. I really don't care that much, but I would like to be asked first....that's all. I made a post to that effect on the Youtube site last night, but it was deleted. Again this morning.....same result. I'm not about to go to war over it.
It can get both worse and highly amusing though. I was contacted a few years ago by a program manager for a production company based in CA. He wanted to ask a few questions about something his researchers had recently found out. Turned out that I (as "somehiker") had and was being impersonated by someone claiming to have solved the stone maps and found the LDM. Every photo they E-Mailed me was one I had posted on this or one of the other websites. In addition to that, he was also claiming he was "somehiker".....

Can be worse than this? Hahaha!
This world is going worse generaly but sometimes I'm thinking how is possible some people who know they are lying , to have the guts to claim in public they have done something that they didn't. I don't know if exist in psichiatry a name about this illness, because to me is an illness.
Your story reminds me when I was to a party at a friends house where were also people who I didn't know, and one person was talking to me about me but he didn't know it was me because he was using my nickname which he didn't know was mine. Got confused?

 

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[somehiker]

Gotta say though.
If Juliana Fay was to ask for a guided tour of a few of the sights out there, I'd find it real tough to say no.

 

[markmar]

Gotta say though.
If Juliana Fay was to ask for a guided tour of a few of the sights out there, I'd find it real tough to say no.

I believe we have some telepathic connection. I was thinking too about her but in a different scenario.

 

[somehiker]

Careful there Marius.
Her husband is a magician......might make something of yours disappear.
At a soon to be 72, I'm not too worried about that. But, like my signature line says...........

 

[Barber..]

he was also claiming he was "somehiker".

The hell is wrong with some people, I just don't understand how anyone could convince themself that was alright to do ? It's a crazy world we live in folks.

 

[somehiker]

The hell is wrong with some people, I just don't understand how anyone could convince themself that was alright to do ? It's a crazy world we live in folks.

Good question.....the wish to be somebody else I guess. And if doing so brings a bigger paycheck,then that makes it OK somehow. I didn't hear anything more. No name was given to me, although I did ask.

 

[sdcfia]

Aug 25, 2019, 07:49 AM post #151

View attachment 1909438

Interesting to see this used on the second episode of ...
... All three of the segments are available.

Once you've posted online, you no longer own rights to the material - you've entered it in the public domain.

Episode 3: the statement at 8:00, "After their final expedition, they'll turn it over to the state." If there's proof in this pudding, it'll be hello Smithsonian, goodby any disclosure. Despite my jaded doubts, at least there'll be another shiny book for the DHers' collections.

 

[sdcfia]

... This world is going worse generaly but sometimes I'm thinking how is possible some people who know they are lying, to have the guts to claim in public they have done something that they didn't. I don't know if exist in psichiatry a name about this illness, because to me is an illness.

Marius, it's simply called human nature. Individual personal disappointments are one thing, but think about what happens when the "illness" permeates the "authorities" in spades. Your forefather Plato described the human condition prior to the fall of Atlantis like this:

"...when the divine portion began to fade away, and became diluted too often and too much with the mortal admixture, and the human nature got the upper hand, they then, being unable to bear their fortune, behaved unseemly, and to him who had an eye to see grew visibly debased, for they were losing the fairest of their precious gifts; but to those who had no eye to see the true happiness, they appeared glorious and blessed at the very time when they were full of avarice and unrighteous power."

 

[coazon de oro]

Howdy Wayne,

I hope it gives you a little comfort to know that real Dutch Hunters know where everything comes from, and you did a good job in labeling the Fish Map. It is sad that so many videos are made claiming to have found the LDM, yet none of them have any proof. I still enjoy them even with the altered, and made up clues. Arcana even showed the fake Peralta Tesora Mappa thinking it was real. I showed Sarge that it was made by Robert Tumlinson, has his hand writing all over it, and Frank went and did a video with his Amigos following a fake map. It's a mad world, and I question the reason for posting your labeled Fish Map if Arcana is no where near any mine on it?

Homar

 

[somehiker]

Once you've posted online, you no longer own rights to the material - you've entered it in the public domain.

Episode 3: the statement at 8:00, "After their final expedition, they'll turn it over to the state." If there's proof in this pudding, it'll be hello Smithsonian, goodby any disclosure. Despite my jaded doubts, at least there'll be another shiny book for the DHers' collections.

Your right in that Steve. And I believe it's a good thing most of the time, especially where it informs and fosters further discussion on a wide range of subjects, as the internet and sites like this were created and developed to do.

If there is any book to come of this, I doubt it will be anything more than a self-published "E-Book".

 

[somehiker]

Howdy Wayne,

I hope it gives you a little comfort to know that real Dutch Hunters know where everything comes from, and you did a good job in labeling the Fish Map. It is sad that so many videos are made claiming to have found the LDM, yet none of them have any proof. I still enjoy them even with the altered, and made up clues. Arcana even showed the fake Peralta Tesora Mappa thinking it was real. I showed Sarge that it was made by Robert Tumlinson, has his hand writing all over it, and Frank went and did a video with his Amigos following a fake map. It's a mad world, and I question the reason for posting your labeled Fish Map if Arcana is no where near any mine on it?

Homar

Hi Homar:
As I said, it wasn't so much that they used it. More that I wasn't asked first. It's really not that big a deal, but does show a lack of basic integrity on their part. That is why I had made two postings on Intrigue Journal's comment section, expressing my disappointment in that regard, which were quickly removed. I posted a third yesterday....purely and honestly complementary.... which is still there. Likely because I didn't mention the map.
I did enjoy watching Juliana's presentation. Her vivacious enthusiasm adds a heap of fun-factor to the story IMO.

Insofar as my labeled analysis is concerned, I suspect quite a few DHer's have come to the same or very similar conclusions, which is why so many have spent a lot of their time exploring the terrain they also believe lies within that map's borders. Yes, I agree with your assertion about the "Peralta Tesoro Mappa". If nothing else, that big bold title gives it away. When Tom K. posted it on facebook, back when Ryan and Frank were posting their "debunking" series of videos, he said it was a map that Al Morrow had shared with him. That was the first time it was shared via the internet.



Shortly after, Bob Garman's version was also brought to the table.....by Frank, as I recall.



Personally, I strongly suspect Garman's is the original....and also the same as what has been called the "ground map", and that Garman's drawing was based on a photograph of that one ( with it's curled and frayed edges )..... perhaps the photo of Travis and Phil Leasman with the map at their feet (keep in mind that it was Garman who had and also first published a wrinkled print of the "bumper photo). The strongest evidence for this, is that twice, during the interviews RG recorded with Tumlinson's relatives, they identified the ground map as being the same as the Peralta Tesoro Mappa that Ryan had shown them.

 

[markmar]

IMHO, both paper maps from above which depict the Trail to the treasure of Santa Fe, were made to fit in the theory of their maker. The real Trail with its real characteristics, is that carved on the stone tablets, and whatever different version is a tentative to destroy the original concept which was used by the original map maker.
The trail is not a long trip but only few hundred feet away on a very rocky region, and starts from one side ( west ) of a deep ravine and ends on the other side ( east ). This trail on the DON part, follows the only possible way which can connect the sides of the ravine, on a ledge at its head, but in the Cross part they chose to take a different path ( despite they could reach the end point very easy from where the DON map ends ) to make more difficult the path and to approach the end point from the south, climbing literally the cliff face. Also the curved Trail #1 from the Trail stone map is an easy path to follow in comparison with the second part ( cross ) of the stone Trail map.
If you read the Rosalee's coded letter at https://discover.hubpages.com/education/The-Lost-Aztec-Treasure , the Trail starts from the big " hall " with the cathredal ( ecclesia from Latin heart stone map ) and ends at the base of the white piramid ( triangulum ) from the second " hall " , close to the white big goat like a horse ( the Horse of Santa Fe ) and passing by the natural arch ( fornix ).

 

[coazon de oro]

Hi Homar:
As I said, it wasn't so much that they used it. More that I wasn't asked first. It's really not that big a deal, but does show a lack of basic integrity on their part. That is why I had made two postings on Intrigue Journal's comment section, expressing my disappointment in that regard, which were quickly removed. I posted a third yesterday....purely and honestly complementary.... which is still there. Likely because I didn't mention the map.
I did enjoy watching Juliana's presentation. Her vivacious enthusiasm adds a heap of fun-factor to the story IMO.

Insofar as my labeled analysis is concerned, I suspect quite a few DHer's have come to the same or very similar conclusions, which is why so many have spent a lot of their time exploring the terrain they also believe lies within that map's borders. Yes, I agree with your assertion about the "Peralta Tesoro Mappa". If nothing else, that big bold title gives it away. When Tom K. posted it on facebook, back when Ryan and Frank were posting their "debunking" series of videos, he said it was a map that Al Morrow had shared with him. That was the first time it was shared via the internet.

View attachment 1910010

Shortly after, Bob Garman's version was also brought to the table.....by Frank, as I recall.

View attachment 1910012

Personally, I strongly suspect Garman's is the original....and also the same as what has been called the "ground map", and that Garman's drawing was based on a photograph of that one ( with it's curled and frayed edges )..... perhaps the photo of Travis and Phil Leasman with the map at their feet (keep in mind that it was Garman who had and also first published a wrinkled print of the "bumper photo). The strongest evidence for this, is that twice, during the interviews RG recorded with Tumlinson's relatives, they identified the ground map as being the same as the Peralta Tesoro Mappa that Ryan had shown them.

First of all, I want to make it clear that I have nothing but respect for Sarge, and am greatfull for his service. It is the so called "History" channel, that comes up with these "videos" full of fake stuff. Some participants such as Mr. Worst, only share the known truth, and don't go making fools out of themselves for a few dollars. I would have rather watched Juliana doing Sarge's famous line.

With the letters from Robert Tumlinson to Robert Garman, one can compare the R.T.'s handwriting with the Peralta Tesora Mappa. It is clearly his work, and he had the PSM's from 1956 to 1960. Why he omitted things, and added others is beyond me. Garmans version was drawn to resemble an old worn map just to look good in a book. It also has numbers indicating there is another page with the labeled list. Such a map would only be created for a money making book.

The paper that Travis, and Phil are pictured with, could be a topo map for all we know, RG just called it the ground map, and assumed it was a map left by Peg Leg, he had a story to make up. I don't believe Peg Leg ever had a map leading anywhere close to where the PSM's lead.

Homar

 

[PotBelly Jim]

A copy of Garman's map with the list of annotated landmarks:



And Garman's "Symbols" from the same book:



Source: Garman, R. L., "Mystery Gold of the Superstitions", 3rd. Ed. 1980

I liked the book, lots of good, original info in a short, easy to read format...also lots of pics and references to some of the old-timers and stories. He misspelled a lot of the old names but easy to understand what areas or people he was referring to.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Regarding the "Peralta Tesora Mappa", I think there's some evidence that points to the creator of that map...Remember when Clarence Mitchell published photos of the Stone Maps, and certain things were covered with black electrical tape?

I think whoever first made the "Peralta Tesora Mappa" was working off of those photos:





EDIT: Forgot to add: if this theory is true, it indicates to me that the "Peralta Tesora Mappa" was created sometime between the Life article in 1964, and Barry Storm's article on the Stone Maps in 1967. Storm was the first one I've seen that depicted the Stone Maps without the electrical tape (1967), after Clarence Mitchell lost control of them and MOEL terminated their contract with Richard Peck.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

One other thing: The trail symbology on the Heart insert, as we now know, ends in what looks like a mine. When the "Peralta Tesora Mappa" was originally drawn, the artist had no idea there was a Heart insert. They were just going off the published pictures to date, none of which showed the Heart Trail Map. It wasn't in the Life article, Mitchell's book, or even in Barry Storm's article (he depicted the side with the zeros but not the trail side).

Another one of the things that makes me think the "Peralta Tesora Mappa" was added to at some point after all parts of the Stone Maps became widely available:

 

[markmar]

First of all, I want to make it clear that I have nothing but respect for Sarge, and am greatfull for his service. It is the so called "History" channel, that comes up with these "videos" full of fake stuff. Some participants such as Mr. Worst, only share the known truth, and don't go making fools out of themselves for a few dollars. I would have rather watched Juliana doing Sarge's famous line.

With the letters from Robert Tumlinson to Robert Garman, one can compare the R.T.'s handwriting with the Peralta Tesora Mappa. It is clearly his work, and he had the PSM's from 1956 to 1960. Why he omitted things, and added others is beyond me. Garmans version was drawn to resemble an old worn map just to look good in a book. It also has numbers indicating there is another page with the labeled list. Such a map would only be created for a money making book.

The paper that Travis, and Phil are pictured with, could be a topo map for all we know, RG just called it the ground map, and assumed it was a map left by Peg Leg, he had a story to make up. I don't believe Peg Leg ever had a map leading anywhere close to where the PSM's lead.

Homar

Homar, from what I know, Sarge believes the Tesora Mappa is more valid than the stone tablets in the museum. He also claimed how has found gold using this map. I can't understand yet where in the Tesora Mappa is depicted a specific place where someone could go and do a research.

 

[Bendsie22]

just add proof, like a real Gold Bar,

 

[markmar]

just add proof, like a real Gold Bar,

View attachment 1910267

Proof we are talking about gold

 

[coazon de oro]

Regarding the "Peralta Tesora Mappa", I think there's some evidence that points to the creator of that map...Remember when Clarence Mitchell published photos of the Stone Maps, and certain things were covered with black electrical tape?

I think whoever first made the "Peralta Tesora Mappa" was working off of those photos:

View attachment 1910183

View attachment 1910184

EDIT: Forgot to add: if this theory is true, it indicates to me that the "Peralta Tesora Mappa" was created sometime between the Life article in 1964, and Barry Storm's article on the Stone Maps in 1967. Storm was the first one I've seen that depicted the Stone Maps without the electrical tape (1967), after Clarence Mitchell lost control of them and MOEL terminated their contract with Richard Peck.

Howdy Jim,

You nailed it , sure is nice to come and find something unraveled. I was puzzled about that since R.T. had the stones with him for a long time. It made me go back to review his handwriting. Even though the capital t, and the small p's seem to be a perfect match, I found that the r's are different. Robert Tumlinson's r's extend up in front while the r's on the map extend up at the end. This means that I have been wrong, and no one had corrected me in all these years. My apology to Sarge, and anyone who believed I could actually pull that off.

I once discounted Al Morrow as having made that map because they claimed he had used the bumper photo, or Life magazine. It could not have been done with the bumper photo because it has the heart insert, and I believe one of the trail map was not shown in Life magazine? The stone maps were however allowed to be viewed at one time, but for a price, and I do believe they were also taped over like in the magazine. Keep up the good work Jim, and thanks for posting the labeled part of Garmans map.

Homar