Complete Colonial Shoe Buckle, Springfield 1810 Bayonet, 1819 LC and more...

[OutdoorAdv]

*UPDATE*: Its a modified Springfield Pattern 1810 Bayonet. Modified for use during the War of 1812!! Lots more information in post #37 on page 3.
Here are some quick links to the comments in this thread with the bayonet information:
Bayonet Post Electrolysis Pictures
Bayonet Identification Email


This was my first trip with my new XP Deus. I spent 9 hours in the field today, getting to know the machine by digging everything, including the signals I knew were big iron. (Picture of all the iron at the bottom, was 40+ lbs) Anyway, in the midst of digging all the big iron, I hit the jackpot with a beautiful bayonet. It was a signal I know I listened to many times on my V3i, then on my T2 and today I dug it in the process of learning my XP Deus. I still have no idea what style bayonet is it, however it does not match any in my CW Crouch book. (Based on its size I feel like it might be older than CW)

After the bayonet I went to another part of the field and dug something that has been a huge goal of mine... a COMPLETE Colonial Shoe Buckle. When you guys post complete shoe buckles I drool over them... for some reason I think they are one of the coolest colonial relics. I always dig the frames, pieces of frames, chapes or tongues... but never thought I'd hold a complete one. The frame is cracked, but its all together and a find I will never forget. Later in the day I hit another large shoe buckle frame. I am still learning to pinpoint with the Deus and was very happy I didn't nick either of those buckles.

A Crusty LC (I believe its 1819) showed up, as well as a 1880 IHP. 4 more pocket knives today, that brings my total to 14 pocket knives from this site total.



The complete buckle is one of my all time favorite relics.




This button is huge. Its one piece cast brass and I put it with the LC for size comparison. It has a wheat ears on the border and sun or flower in the middle with what looks to me like a "8" in the very center. When I saw how big it was and that there was a design, the first thing I thought was "GW"! ha





Cow #7's tag blew my headphones off... I saw the edge of a thick brass piece in the hole and I had a mild heart attack. I thought I might have a brass buckle, but instead I got a worn through cow tag.



This is a cool piece of brass with some hand engraved initials... Not sure what it went to, but someone punched "L.W" into it. My guess is that it was part of a knife handle.



Here are the bayonet measurements. I would really like to ID it. Its in electrolysis now and I think it will come out looking great. There is minimal pitting on it and I am hoping there are some markings I will be able to see once its preserved. Any ideas on what kind it is?





Here is the iron... I'm exhausted from digging and carrying all that home. Digging this iron gave me a good feel for the Deus and I can now tell what a piece of big iron sounds like when it rings in as a high tone... although, after the bayonet, I might just keep digging it all anyway.

 

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[OutdoorAdv]

Dude Colonial buckle,bayonet and coppers what more could you ask for

Is that buckle stamped in the corner or is that wear?

~Blaze~

Thank you Blaze! I just yanked it from the case to see if I overlooked something. I got excited... but I see what you were talking about. Its just a discoloration in the picture from the light. I did just notice that it has a brass pin though... which is why I probably found it intact. All my other frames have rust spots on the pin holes. I know iron pins are more common, which is maybe why we don't find many of these buckles intact.

 

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[CMDiamonddawg]

You don't mess around .. . That's some serious digging , Well Done !

 

[OutdoorAdv]

OA DAMN MAN WHAT NICE RELICS YOU HAVE THERE . THE BLEEDER IS A NICE FIND AND THE BAYONET ALSO , HELL ALL OF IT IS AND THE BUCKLE IS A KILLER ,CONGRATS ON ALL YOUR FINDS , UNREAL ...

Thank you Sutphin! It was a great day in the field for me.

You don't mess around .. . That's some serious digging , Well Done !

Thank you! I've done well digging up the iron here, but its a ton of work. I definitely wouldn't do it at every site, but this one has turned up some nice iron artifacts.

 

[OutdoorAdv]

I've been looking at specs on Socket Bayonets and while this doesn't seem to match any of the socket bayonets listed, I think I can determine this bayonet went to a large caliber flint lock musket.

The socket inside diameter on mine is 24mm which is similar to some listed in the .75-.80 caliber. That makes sense since 24mm is .95" and since caliber is in hundredths of inch, accounting for barrel thickness at the muzzle, it should fall in that large caliber range.

I cant seem to find this exact bayonet though. Once I'm done with electrolysis, if we still don't know what it is here, I'll get it posted in what-is-it.

 

[Steve in PA]

Fantastic hunt Brad! Congrats on the shoe buckles and the Bayonet is if great shape - intact without sever corrosion. I also see what looks like a small cannon ball in your iron pile. But if it was, I'm sure you would have mentioned it.

 

[OutdoorAdv]

Fantastic hunt Brad! Congrats on the shoe buckles and the Bayonet is if great shape - intact without sever corrosion. I also see what looks like a small cannon ball in your iron pile. But if it was, I'm sure you would have mentioned it.

Thank you Steve! George was asking about it too and I just forgot to mention it in my original post. When I wrote it, I was thinking about shoe buckles and bayonets, so the lump of iron made the picture, but dint get a mention. ha Yeah, I think it is a cannon ball... another small canister shot. Once I run it through electrolysis I should be able to measure it and see what it really is.

Here it is next to another one I found at the same site. The one from yesterday looks a bit bigger though.



The other odd thing is that its broken. It looks like its solid cast iron, but its missing a piece. Hopefully its another canister shot.

 

[OutdoorAdv]

The bayonet is out of electrolysis... still no ID. Here are some more pictures of it now that its preserves. It turned out great.

I'm dying to know what this went to and how old it is. I am going to open a new thread in what-is-it to see if I cant get an ID. Comment here if you know the answer... I cant find this design anywhere.










Stamped "17" with maybe some other numbers after it


Stamped "111"?


The crown piece over the socket opening was brazed on. You can actually see the yellow colored metal that joined the two pieces.

 

[Vino]

Fantastic job on the Electrolysis.
Boy did that thing clean up and persevere well.
I sure hope you can get a ID on it. Great job Brad on saving it.

 

[Mach1Pilot]

Well done Brad! That's a killer hunt - especially considering you were learning a new Deus in the process!

It always amazes me how nice iron relics are still there to be found.... you got some great ones. Will be interesting to see how that ball cleans up too!

 

[lazabert]

sweet finds --- I gotta be a digger for all soon--I'm probably missing alot of good stuff... Great finds love it

 

[pepperj]

What a great bonus for digging up the iron, congrats! The shoe buckle is one sweet looking piece also, you really had some fun digging.

 

[ARC]

"But it looks most like the US M1816 and M1819, except the groove in the socket is shaped wrong"

Yep. lol

 

[oxbowbarefoot]

That came out well. I'm considering light electrolysis on the one dug at my school.

 

[NEPADIGGER7]

Greats finds and especially sweet buckle!

 

[OutdoorAdv]

That came out well. I'm considering light electrolysis on the one dug at my school.

oxbow, I think your's would clean up great with electrolysis. It looked like you mostly has some light surface rust on it just like mine had. It could also be a cool classroom project for the kids on preservation with a bit of science with electrolysis

 

[OutdoorAdv]

Fantastic job on the Electrolysis.
Boy did that thing clean up and persevere well.
I sure hope you can get a ID on it. Great job Brad on saving it.

Thanks man! It turned out great and is still super sharp. Luckily its in the cabinet now where I cant accidentally stab myself with it. ha

Well done Brad! That's a killer hunt - especially considering you were learning a new Deus in the process!

It always amazes me how nice iron relics are still there to be found.... you got some great ones. Will be interesting to see how that ball cleans up too!

Thank you Keith! Took the ball out of electrolysis to snap some pictures just now. Its pretty much done. It really looks like cracked cast iron to me. I'll put my calipers on it later, but I think it might be a canister shot. Crazy to see a solid shot broken like that.

sweet finds --- I gotta be a digger for all soon--I'm probably missing alot of good stuff... Great finds love it

Thank you! Yeah, its site dependent, but if the old stuff is showing up, I dig the iron... I still skip over small iron for now unless its an area where I found masked things before. Once I'm really bored I'll dig up the small iron!

What a great bonus for digging up the iron, congrats! The shoe buckle is one sweet looking piece also, you really had some fun digging.

Thank you pepperj! It was a blast. I was in awe when the buckle came out. I could tell it was complete still caked with dirt... snapped a bunch of pictures and enjoyed it for 5 minutes before hunting again. I've always wanted a complete buckle and never thought I would find one.

"But it looks most like the US M1816 and M1819, except the groove in the socket is shaped wrong"

Yep. lol

HA... this thing is killing me with anticipation trying to ID it. A few are "close", but nothings spot on. I have emailed an expert and hope to hear back. Its certainly not a common type, and maybe its been modified with the brazed part.

Greats finds and especially sweet buckle!

Thank you Nepadigger! Even with the bayonet, that buckle was the highlight of my day.

 

[OutdoorAdv]

I just got an excellent email back from worldbayonets.com with a wealth of information on the bayonet.

Its a modified Springfield Pattern 1810 Bayonet modified during the War of 1812.

Here is the email I received. It easily catapulted this relic into my top finds. I am amazed at this thing.

Hi Brad,

Really nice job documenting this piece!

Your bayonet is probably of the type made at Springfield Armory ca. 1813-15 as replacements for use with older .69 caliber Springfield contract muskets and old French muskets then under repair at Schuylkill Arsenal in Philadelphia. Your bayonet is based on the Springfield Pattern 1810 bayonet then in production, but has a shorter socket and larger socket diameter to mount to an older musket. The socket on this example is cut for a musket with the bayonet mounting stud on the top of the barrel. 3,000 replacement bayonets were ordered in October 1813, some for top and some for bottom bayonet studs (there not yet being standardization in manufacture of muskets). This was during the War of 1812, so the government was short of muskets and was issuing everything in stores that could be made serviceable to equip militia units.

During this period, bayonets often had a tiny letter or number stamped on the socket forward of the mounting slot, or on the socket bridge, that would match it to a particular musket (which would have the same stamped on the bayonet stud). Bayonets were not interchangeable from musket to musket due to lack of standardization. Once they had a musket and bayonet that fit together, they usually numbered them. True regulation weapons design standardization would not come until after the War and establishment of the Ordnance Department in 1816.

This is the second one of these to come across my desk in the last three months. The flat face on the elbow is an American characteristic, not usually found on European bayonets. Really interesting image showing how the bridge was brazed to the socket.

Congratulations on a very cool American socket bayonet!

I was close, I thought it was a Pattern 1807 or a French Charleville... however it was modified to fit on a .69 French Charleville or similar clone. So this isn't American Revolution old, but it could have been fitted for an old French musket used in the American Revolution.. and then used in the WAR OF 1812!

Its final spot is at the top of one of my display cabinets with relics from the same site... possibly lost by the same owner of the bayonet.

 

[BuckleBoy]

That bayonet is just a stellar recovery. And fantastic work with the electrolysis, too.

Cheers,

Buck

 

[CASPER-2]

 

[HomeGuardDan]

Man o man how did I miss this? Killer haul man!