Comparing Swifts trip in 1767 to Boones trip in 1767.

[KY Hiker]

Comparing Swift's trip to Boone's trip in 1767....

Both John Swift and Daniel Boone where in "fact" both in the upper Yadkin river valley in the summer and fall of 1767, the Swift journal tells "That Swift arrived in the Yadkin the 16th of December 1766, and remained there until the next trip to the mines in October of 1767. The journal tells of Swift gathering supplies for such a large packtrain being the reason so much time was taken in between trips, nearly 100 pack animals were taken to the mines this year. Swift also mentions "by now several others not of " our company" has became suspicious of our activities...Swift set out for the mines October 1st 1767, and arriving at the mines the 2nd or 3rd week in November.

(Quote from Steelys book) "In 1767 Swift left North Carolina with the largest pack train thus far, and attempted to leave in secret, noting that several others had become suspicious of his activities. Here some Swift researchers connect Daniel Boone and other Yadkin Valley longhunters to the Swift legend, contending that Boone and several men tried to follow Swift and find his mines".

Now let's look at Boones trip in 1767, Boone's trip was in the Fall or early winter of 1767 around the same time Swift made his trip into Kentucky (from the book Life of Daniel Boone) "On Boone's first trip into Kentucky he came by way of the Sandy River, Boone and company started from the upper Yadkin river valley in North Carolina. They crossed the Blue ridge, Alleghenies, crossed the Holston and Clinch rivers near their headwaters. They fell upon the headwaters of the West fork of the Big Sandy River, and continued their journey along its banks. They came to a "salt spring" ten miles directly west of the present-town of Prestonsburg on the Lick fork of Middle creek, a tributary to the West of "Louisa fork" of the Big Sandy river in Floyd County, Kentucky.
Boone here got caught in a huge snow storm.

(Boone describing the salt spring in his own words) "The salt spring which issued from the foot of a rocky bluff on the southern bank of the stream proved more valuable to them than a Mine of the precious metals, for it drew in great numbers of buffalo".

Notice Boone mentions "Mine of the precious metals" comparing it to the salt spring they found after being stopped by a huge snowstorm. I'm almost convinced that Boone was indeed looking for Swifts company During this trip. Both Swift and Boone were in Kentucky the same time in the winter of 1767, on Swifts return from the mines he went out by way of the Sandy river to Fort Pitt on his way to Alexandria, Virginia. This could be one reason why in just two years later Swift and crew decided to abandon and conceal the mines in 1769. Boone made another trip into Kentucky in 1769 the same time Swift made his last trip to his mines in 1769 and concealing them. There is a good chance that Boone was getting close to Swifts workings, thus giving Swift the reason for concealing his mines..

My only hesitation on this theory is how could Swift and company along with a large long pack train slip away from a long hunter/tracker who could read animal sign well like Boone? He, who probably only came in with 1-3 animals for hauling pelts and skins out on. Comparing this in modern terms, if Swift was a semi 18 wheeler on the interstate and Boone was following it from a distance in a lighter faster sedan how could the semi slip away from the sedan?
100 pack animals are going to leave deep sloppy sign for Boone to find and follow even if he was a day or two behind them...unless they moved within the creek beds to hide the tracks. Even at this, the animals would have to graze somewhere and Boone should have seen that.

 

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[Ken S.]

Leave out by way of a rocky creek/river would be one way. leave out by different route when not expected. How close did they live to each other?? lots of variables in the possibilities. Communication was much different in those days. Haven't determined how Swift traveled on his way into Ky. in 67. We know Boone came by way of Pound gap if memory serves me right.

 

[KY Hiker]

Leave out by way of a rocky creek/river would be one way. leave out by different route when not expected. How close did they live to each other?? lots of variables in the possibilities. Communication was much different in those days. Haven't determined how Swift traveled on his way into Ky. in 67. We know Boone came by way of Pound gap if memory serves me right.

I'm not familiar with the 'routes' but read this part again...
"Boone's trip was in the Fall or early winter of 1767 around the same time Swift made his trip into Kentucky (from the book Life of Daniel Boone) "On Boone's first trip into Kentucky he came by way of the Sandy River, Boone and company started from the upper Yadkin river valley in North Carolina. They crossed the Blue ridge, Alleghenies, crossed the Holston and Clinch rivers near their headwaters. They fell upon the headwaters of the West fork of the Big Sandy River, and continued their journey along its banks. They came to a "salt spring" ten miles directly west of the present-town of Prestonsburg on the Lick fork of Middle creek, a tributary to the West of "Louisa fork" of the Big Sandy river in Floyd County, Kentucky. "

Just the part "They crossed the Blue Ridge, Alleghenies, crossed the Holston and Clinch rivers near their headwaters." Sounds difficult to me...does the Blue Ridge have passes? How large an area is the headwaters of the Holston and Clinch rivers? Why would they not follow the East fork of the Sandy rather than the West Fork?...Wouldn't they have had to cross the New River also? That area's geography is not someplace I am familiar with.

 

[Ken S.]

Pound gap is the Rt. Rt 23 takes south and it was one of the old buffalo trails into the area at the time. They wouldn't have had to cross new river if they lived on the west side of the Yadkin I don't think. New River runs a very short distance into N.C. and if they knew of the buffalo trail up through Pound gap they may have missed it traveling that way. When you come through Pound gap and drop down in the valley you run into the west or Levisa/Louisa fork of Sandy.

 

[Ken S.]

(They came to a "salt spring" ten miles directly west of the present-town of Prestonsburg on the Lick fork of Middle creek,)


There is parts of this quote that is misleading if I'm not mistaken. This statement doesn't Jive with the local legend of Boone. I was hauling fuel into the David, ky. area in 70's when they were trying to get it established as a tourist attraction and know that they have a man made salt lick in the community.

 

[swiftfan]

My only hesitation on this theory is how could Swift and company along with a large long pack train slip away from a long hunter/tracker who could read animal sign well like Boone? He, who probably only came in with 1-3 animals for hauling pelts and skins out on. Comparing this in modern terms, if Swift was a semi 18 wheeler on the interstate and Boone was following it from a distance in a lighter faster sedan how could the semi slip away from the sedan?
100 pack animals are going to leave deep sloppy sign for Boone to find and follow even if he was a day or two behind them...unless they moved within the creek beds to hide the tracks. Even at this, the animals would have to graze somewhere and Boone should have seen that.

Maybe following buffalo trails, it disguised the path of the miners. Any branch off the main trial by a large pack train wouldn’t look as out of place as one or two sets of tracks.

 

[KY Hiker]

Maybe following buffalo trails, it disguised the path of the miners. Any branch off the main trial by a large pack train wouldn’t look as out of place as one or two sets of tracks.

But wouldn't the pack animals have shoes? I think even oxen had shoes made for use on farms at that time. These would leave easy to identify tracks I would think? I'm not trying to argue the possibility of the theory, just the probability of it. The admission by Boone that the salt had more value than mines of precious metal it a fact of that time on the frontier. Salt, salt peter and lead for making balls were high on their list of priorities because of need and survival. If you can't kill your food and have a way to preserve it your dead within a week when your 20-40 days from home, even without the Indian threat.

As I recall the video of Prather at Prestonsburg he mentions the Salt lick or Salt Rock associated with Swift along a creek or stream. I don't know if this is the same one as Ken was speaking of though.

 

[Ken S.]

Boones description of the salt spring/salt rock.
"The salt spring which issued from the foot of a rocky bluff on the southern bank of the stream proved more valuable to them than a Mine of the precious metals, for it drew in great numbers of buffalo"


I think it is worth some investigation. BUT I know the local legend I've heard of Boone all my life doesn't jive with the direct west of P burg. as to where the salt lick that he spent the winter at in the snow storm.

 

[KY Hiker]

Yea it doesn't make much since in that area, how can you have a South bank of a creek if the creek runs North-South? Maybe the creek had a bend East-West? In the Prather video that I recalled, the map showed the salt rock along a N-S running creek I thought. I doubt Boone had a compass, but as long as the sun is out he could have easily figured out direction. On the other hand, salt licks are a dime a dozen with all the limestone in central through eastern KY.

 

[Ken S.]

Salt licks aren't really that common in E. Ky. and we sure don't have a lot of limestone. We have mostly shale, sandstone, mudstone and slate in this end of the state, and don't forget coal. Our geology is a different can of worms though.

I doubt that pack animals would have shoes if one was going into Indian country, would be a dead give away of white man activity.

 

[KY Hiker]

Might find these of interest. Just a quick search.

https://explorekyhistory.ky.gov/items/show/476?tour=33&index=1

The map on that link shows the salt lick SW of Prestonsburg and not due West

https://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC1K2RE_paint-lick-creek-watershed-early-source-of-salt

Following is quoted from above link.

"A salt lick is a salt deposit that animals regularly lick. In an ecosystem, salt/mineral licks sometimes occur naturally, providing the sodium, calcium, iron, phosphorus and zinc required in the springtime for bone, muscle and other growth in deer and other wildlife around the world, such as moose, elephants, cattle, woodchucks, domestic sheep, fox squirrels, mountain goats and porcupines. Harsh weather exposes salty mineral deposits that draw animals from miles away for a taste of needed nutrients.Particular to this area, the underlying limestone topography is a place where salty, often sulfurous, water emanates like a spring from the ground. As the water evaporates, the salt impregnates the soil surrounding the spring, and wild game come to these areas to lick salt from the ground. Fifteen to twenty thousand years ago during the Wisconsinan glaciation, animals moved along the front of the ice sheet looking for places like Big Bone Lick, Kentucky to get needed salt. They often became trapped or mired in the surrounding bogs where their bones were buried and preserved.

Paint Lick Creek is not only a source of spring fed salt licks. It is the primary collector for a watershed that runs some 18 miles and drains 109 square miles."

Looks like the limestone in your area is generally not exposed, but it is there underground.

Link to a zoomable Filson map of KY
https://mappingmovement.newberry.or...ost-perfect-respect-honorable-congress-united

Interestingly if you zoom in just East of Harrodsburg on the KY river. There is another Paintlick Creek and the next stream is called Silver Creek.
Top center of map show a key of sorts, symbols for towns and licks and such.

 

[Ken S.]

I don't think the west fork of sandy runs through Madison Co. Least not today. Just because it's on the net doesn't make it true. People put false info on the net every day.

 

[KY Hiker]

I don't think the west fork of sandy runs through Madison Co. Least not today. Just because it's on the net doesn't make it true. People put false info on the net every day.

I think your looking at the picture on that site, it says Paint Lick watershed and not creek. So whatever that creek is in that picture eventually feeds into Paint Lick Creek. The Filson Map shows 2 other Paint Lick Creeks. One on the KY just East of Ft. Harrod and another on the Green River South of Ft. Harrod. I wonder if they got their names for the same reason as your more infamous Paint Lick Creek.

https://kentucky.hometownlocator.com/maps/feature-map,ftc,1,fid,500121,n,paint lick creek.cfm

 

[Ken S.]

The Paint Creek that runs through Paintsville is most commonly called Big Paint creek . There is a tributary on Big Paint that is called Little Paint . As for the sight I was just looking through the pics was just about to go to bed and didn't spend much time on it. Thanks for pointing out there being numerous Paint lick creeks. I'll have to go back to the site some time and see if I can figure out if they got their name the way the salt lick at David got its name.

At a glance at the site See if you can find it by the Latitude and Longitude they have listed for Paint lick creek. To me that says something to the credibility of the site.

 

[Ken S.]

salt licks: Heard a guy back in the 70's say you could take 500 lb. of salt and a dozen cattle and in a year you could have a salt lick that people would think buffalo had been visiting recently.

 

[KY Hiker]

salt licks: Heard a guy back in the 70's say you could take 500 lb. of salt and a dozen cattle and in a year you could have a salt lick that people would think buffalo had been visiting recently.

True to scale, I know several people who make licks by digging a hole/trench and laying salt and mineral blocks in it and covering it with an inch or so of soil. Rain soaks and bathes the mineral and salt blocks and they leech into the soil. They now have a deer lick to draw in deer for hunting. Over many years the trench or hole is turned into larger muddy area. I think the Filson map would show roughly where 'natural' licks were known of pre 1800 since in that time salt had too much value to dump to make their own licks with.

 

[KY Hiker]

The Paint Creek that runs through Paintsville is most commonly called Big Paint creek . There is a tributary on Big Paint that is called Little Paint . As for the sight I was just looking through the pics was just about to go to bed and didn't spend much time on it. Thanks for pointing out there being numerous Paint lick creeks. I'll have to go back to the site some time and see if I can figure out if they got their name the way the salt lick at David got its name.

At a glance at the site See if you can find it by the Latitude and Longitude they have listed for Paint lick creek. To me that says something to the credibility of the site.

Yep that site was about the Paint lick that is East of Harrodsburg (Ft. Harrod) on the KY river and not the Paintsville Paint Creek. I still wonder if all the Paint lick Creeks in KY are named because of similar painting on trees and rocks.

 

[Ken S.]

Yep that site was about the Paint lick that is East of Harrodsburg (Ft. Harrod) on the KY river and not the Paintsville Paint Creek. I still wonder if all the Paint lick Creeks in KY are named because of similar painting on trees and rocks.

I guess we'll never know for sure. I sometimes wonder if all the Lick Creeks in Ky actually had licks on them. Seems like there are areas that most every creek has a lick in it's name. I'm thinking of Magoffin co. in particular.

 

[Ken S.]

Thomas Walker camped in Present day Johnson Co. in 1750. Interesting bit of info on his 1st. trip into ky.

https://explorekyhistory.ky.gov/items/show/361

 

[KY Hiker]

I know of a couple of Salt Forks of rivers and The Salt River that empties into the Ohio. I would bet that any creek with the name lick in it had a lick on it or at its headwaters. As I had stated before salt licks and mineral licks are pretty common in KY, maybe not as much in East KY but they are there too.