Colonial Pocket Watch - or is it? Help! - Cleaned photos added

[Narthoniel]

Hello,

I am hoping to achieve 3 things from this post;
to have my speculations either verified or rejected
to have a time period determined that this object appears to be from
and to learn the options I have for cleaning

I was able to sneak in one hour of detecting today at a site that has yielded 4 half reale and 1 KG copper in the last 2 days. While this area is 50 feet from a significant road, we have found very little modern metal. The youngest relics found appear to be from the 1850s-1870s. I am only speculating as I know little for sure, but it appears this site was approximately inhabited between 1780 and 1860. This area is wooded now, and all that remains are the relics found and a cellar hole.

I have only used cold water so far to clean this - No picks, brushes or chemicals at all. Sorry it is so dirty, but given the nature of the find, I want to go slow and be careful in preserving it.

From what my hunting partner and I can see this used to be a pocket watch. In the first photo, I color coded the 3 parts of this item so I can explain as thoroughly as possible what I know. The coins are merely for size reference.



Red: This appears to be the bezel of the watch. I plan to return and hunt for more pieces, but I do not expect to find any. The side that is showing appears to have set into the top of the watch itself, while the other side(not pictured) was the exterior of the face. I initially thought this might be a monocle, but the glass has no magnification at all.
Blue: I know little about this portion for sure. It is very ornately detailed in nature and it swivels where it meets the ring. It spins easy, even after all this time in the ground. My speculation is that this was where a string or chain was connected.
Green: This appears to be a key of some sort, and my hunting partner said it looked like it was used to wind the springs in a watch. Ill go with his deduction for now. This part also swivels easily where it connects to the rings.

Here is a closeup of the "key" portion of this find.


I am also looking for recommendations on further cleaning. It appears that this object was originally gold plated. The following 2 pictures depict the areas that show this the best. I have read that naval jelly works wonders on gilded buttons, would that apply to this as well? What other cleaners would you recommend?




I have tried to look up information on pocket watches, but all I have learned is that they were first developed in the 16th century. If you know of any good resources online for them, please tune me in. If you have any questions feel free to ask. I will do my best to answer them for you.

I am most grateful to anyone for any insight or advice. Thank you very much for anything you can contribute,
Anthony

 

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[lonesomebob]

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[randazzo1]

That is an unbelievably cool transition - looks like something from an info-mercial - you know .... time elapsed

 

[Narthoniel]

Buckleboy - I have been at this site everyday since Sunday looking for goodies. I am about to go again for a few hours. I have not left once unless it was too dark to see. Last night my last target was a Large Cent. When I dug it, I pulled out my cell phone to try and see if there was any detail. Either I have a knack for finding toasted coppers, or I clean them to death. I think I will no longer clean my copper coins, as they all come out looking like crud. Once I have a few saved up, Ill track down one of you pros, and bring them to you and watch how you clean them. I am not going to do anything else with the huge copper coin. Is there anything I can do to keep copper from deteriorating further without cleaning or damaging it?
Anthony

 

[BuckleBoy]

Buckleboy - I have been at this site everyday since Sunday looking for goodies. I am about to go again for a few hours. I have not left once unless it was too dark to see. Last night my last target was a Large Cent. When I dug it, I pulled out my cell phone to try and see if there was any detail. Either I have a knack for finding toasted coppers, or I clean them to death. I think I will no longer clean my copper coins, as they all come out looking like crud. Once I have a few saved up, Ill track down one of you pros, and bring them to you and watch how you clean them. I am not going to do anything else with the huge copper coin. Is there anything I can do to keep copper from deteriorating further without cleaning or damaging it?
Anthony

Soak it in distilled water overnight.

Then let it dry.


If you aren't going to risk cleaning them, that's the way to go.

 

[Mich. Wolverine]

I think what you have is part of a ladies chatelaine. It's a woman's ornamental chain or clasp worn at the waist with keys or a purse or charms fastened to it. I would do a search on chateliane and see if you can find one like it. I hope this helps.

Wolverine.

 

[rainmaker3555]

The blue item appears to show gold and green (copper), leading me to think it might be 10k -14k. The fact that it swivels freely would also tend to lead me to think it would tend to be higher purity gold, since it is one of the few metals that does not corrode easily. A low voltage cleaning would be very helpful, DO NOT scrap or brush (A soft bristle, (tooth brush)) might be helpful.

Interesting find!! I would be interested to see more after it has been cleaned properly!!


Rainmaker3555

 

[texan connection]

Could it be a monocle, you know a magnifine glass

 

[Narthoniel]

The blue item appears to show gold and green (copper), leading me to think it might be 10k -14k. The fact that it swivels freely would also tend to lead me to think it would tend to be higher purity gold, since it is one of the few metals that does not corrode easily. A low voltage cleaning would be very helpful, DO NOT scrap or brush (A soft bristle, (tooth brush)) might be helpful.

Interesting find!! I would be interested to see more after it has been cleaned properly!!


Rainmaker3555

Thank you for the information. I do not think it is actually gold, but plated. If you look at the photos of it clean, you can see where some of the base metal is showing through.

I think what you have is part of a ladies chatelaine. It's a woman's ornamental chain or clasp worn at the waist with keys or a purse or charms fastened to it. I would do a search on chateliane and see if you can find one like it. I hope this helps.

Wolverine.

Thank you for the lead, I will definatly look into it.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I think what you have is part of a ladies chatelaine. It's a woman's ornamental chain or clasp worn at the waist with keys or a purse or charms fastened to it. I would do a search on chateliane and see if you can find one like it. I hope this helps.

Wolverine.

Here is a link about chatelaines. http://dazzlingornaments.blogspot.com/2008/10/what-is-chatelaine.html

 

[RELICDUDE07]

Yes i think its a 3 in one something like this.....Victorian

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The chains are not that long.

 

[Narthoniel]

I did a little research on chatelaine, and it seems like that could be the ticket. My only reason for doubting it is the lack of chains. If this was worn on the belt, there would be no reach on the tools. Of course, the chain could be attached to the hollow decorative trinket, and the entire piece might have dangled. I did not find a great many examples to view, but those I did see all had chains for each different tool.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

If its a chatelaine, it is a small broken part of one.

 

[Mich. Wolverine]

I found something more about chatelaines. Very short chatelaine chains were called chatelettes they measured from 2 to 6 inches in length. The chatelette chain had a swivel at the end of the chain from which to hang a watch. Early chatelaines were worn at the waist but in more resent times the clasp-pin type was pinned to the dress or waist. I found the chatelettes in my 1909 Sears and Roebuck catalog. I'm not trying to sell you on this, but just trying to figure out what it is. Now get out there and find the rest of it.

Wolverine.

 

[Don in SJ]

I am not sure but when I posted my swivel assy, the best answer was a broken off watch key, but it could be something else like part of chatelaine.... Notice mine has a glass stone in the larger opening.

Don

 

[BioProfessor]

I have experimented with different things to clean guilded items or corroded copper or brass. I was trying to find one that would get the crud but not eat away at the coating or the metal. I found a product made by Krud Kutter. It is their rust remover. It comes in a spray bottle that looks like a 409 bottle. I spray it on, let it soak 10-15 seconds, use a pre-softened toothpick to carefully move the crud around. It usually just becomes suspended in the solution. I wash it off with a little water, dry it off, and examine it with a 10x loupe to see what it has done. If the crud is coming off and there is no lifting or removal of the gold, I keep going. For the real small crevices, I use a wet pointed toothpick. It gets in the small places and if you are gentle, it will not hurt anything. It is a slow process but will usually get all the crud and not damage anything. For button backs that are pretty corroded, I will set the back of the button in a small "puddle" of the liquid and let it soak for a while and use a toothpick to "scrub" it. I keep repeating this until it is good enough to make out the backmark. It will remove the crud and not eat away at the metal. Sometimes, once the crud is removed all you have left is a pitted and unreadable backmark. The cleaner did not eat the metal, it just removed the crud from the pits and now they are visible. On copper coins/tokens, I have successfully removed the rough feeling crud, and reveled a smooth surface that retained all the detail.

If you are up to experimenting, this one is worth a try.

Daryl

 

[Narthoniel]

Wolverine - I have been looking for the rest for several days. It doesn't want to be found I tell ya!

Don - That is an interesting piece, and definatly resembles part of my item. Was that solid gold, or just gilded?

Bio - Thank you for the cleaning tips. I am a novice in the cleaning field, and need all the help I can get!