Coincidences?

[Benjamin Gates]

Where would one find the financial books showing the Louisiana Purchase of 1803 for $15,000,000 and the payments paid out?
I'm sure we (US) had some type of payment plan made during negotiations. I'd like to see some type of breakdown of this transaction.
To whom? dates? amounts?

Are the Beale deposits related (in code) to the above question?

 

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[Benjamin Gates]

An interesting read.

How much did the Louisiana Purchase actually cost?

 

[bigscoop]

Where would one find the financial books showing the Louisiana Purchase of 1803 for $15,000,000 and the payments paid out?
I'm sure we (US) had some type of payment plan made during negotiations. I'd like to see some type of breakdown of this transaction.
To whom? dates? amounts?

Are the Beale deposits related (in code) to the above question?

Excellent notion, and one we had a while back. We did attempt to dig into this a few years back and as I recall there was some loan activity on an international level involved in the transaction, though I don't recall those exact details. But as far as actually specifics of payment dates and that sort of thing, it was all pretty vague in nature with nothing too telling in what we were able to discover. It is ironic, however, that the DOI is the alleged key in this mystery, the Adams Onis Treaty actually being the event that finally solidified the disputed boundaries of that purchase. So there are several possible angles here on the political front but we were never able to gather any trpe of detailed records on most of these dealings.

 

[Benjamin Gates]

found this,

"Negotiations moved swiftly, and at the end of April the U.S. envoys agreed to pay $11,250,000 and assume claims of American citizens against France in the amount of $3,750,000."

Louisiana Purchase - Facts & Summary - HISTORY.com

These amounts are vague, although total $15,000,000. Where did any/all monies come from? I'm sure we (US) did not have this much specie on hand. Can't be taxes...we just told England to shove it up their butts!

 

[Benjamin Gates]

From wikipedia,

FINANCING
"The American government used $3 million in gold as a down payment, and issued bonds for the balance to pay France for the purchase. Earlier that year, Francis Baring and Company of London had become the U.S. government's official banking agent in London. Because of this favored position, the U.S. asked the Baring firm to handle the transaction. Francis Baring's son Alexander was in Paris at the time and helped in the negotiations.[45] Another Baring advantage was a close relationship with Hope and Company of Amsterdam. The two banking houses worked together to facilitate and underwrite the Purchase.

Because Napoleon wanted to receive his money as quickly as possible, the two firms received the American bonds and shipped the gold to France.[45] Napoleon used the money to finance his planned invasion of England, which never took place.[46]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Purchase

Who had possession of the $3,000,000 in gold? The US...or Company of London and Company of Amsterdam?

 

[bigscoop]

This will get involved as you attempt to dig deeper. But I can tell you that nothing truly useful will turn up, or at least it didn't for us. I can also tell you this, and though it appears such information isn't in existence, if there is any connection to the Beale mystery at all then that information is likely to be in the Mexican records of the period. Of course we're talking about an ousted government that was pretty much seat of its pants so extremely doubtful that any type of true or extensive record keeping existed beyond a very close legal level, say on more of an individual/personal level. We never could find much in this regard.

 

[TN_Guest1523]

Where would one find the financial books showing the Louisiana Purchase of 1803 for $15,000,000 and the payments paid out?
I'm sure we (US) had some type of payment plan made during negotiations. I'd like to see some type of breakdown of this transaction.
To whom? dates? amounts?

Are the Beale deposits related (in code) to the above question?

Captain Thomas Beale's cousin Madison who was I think Sec of State at the time .

 

[bigscoop]

Given the dates of the alleged deposits in the Beale Papers, one of the areas we researched pretty heavily arrived from the question, "who, on the political front, stood to benefit from the Adams Onis Treaty and the events leading up to it?" This answer pretty much left only the US and Mexico/South America as the two nations who stood to directly benefit from that treaty. When we look at other such negotiations, even the Louisiana Purchase, we find typical banking involvements at the core of these agreements, so why a clandestine/secret transfer of monies if that activity was legitimate? Again, there are a couple of good possibilities here that have been discussed in length in these forums and elsewhere, Galveston Island being the most notable but given the US based resources involved in the liberating of Mexico/South America there were plenty of interest in those regions who would have been capable and interested in paying for that liberation support.

Yes, there was still a fear of banking stability within the US during the period but when we research these leading federal banks they were still conducting national business as usual, so here again, if this alleged money was legit then why not use a bank? These banks certainly would have been safer then some alleged cave that is routinely frequented or some other unsecured location. This is huge money, an alleged transfer that would have certainly required the involvement of capable and resourceful men who were well connected, so why no bank? Why a ten-year period? There are perfectly reasonable answers to these questions just none that can be confirmed.

 

[bigscoop]

One thing you can be 100% certain of is this, there is/was no buried treasure, at least not in the traditional sense. The story itself mandates this. There are certain aspects of the story that render this notion out of the question, and not just because it would have been a stupid thing to do. There are also other aspects of the story that also serve to render the notion of a buried treasure being out of the question and it's simply a matter of math, expectations, and common sense.

 

[ECS]

... TJB was born in "Richmond" in 1823, "a free man of color."
The last Beale deposit was made in the winter of 1821, so, if his father stayed in the region until spring of 22, say, April when the child was conceived, then YES, 1823 becomes a perfect date of birth.
So, who was his father if he was "a free man of color?" He didn't become a man of color some time after birth, he was born that way. And where did the unknown author claim the party members lived near?

What is much more curious is after the future Jackson Ward Alderman was born in 1823 in Richmond City as a freeborn of color from unlisted/unknown parents, who raised him and where was he raised?
It is known, at age 28, he married Sophia Pemberton, daughter of George Washington and Elizabeth D Bosher Pemberton, October 1, 1851 in Richmond, but between his birthdate and marriage nothing is known of his activities or profession.
He served as a Confederate in the Richmond Howitzers, and in 1884 became the Alderman of Richmond's Jackson Ward, a
Freedman section of that city created during Reconstruction.
Then the newspaper society page mention of his son's visit from Texas.
That is all that appears to be known about this Thomas J Beale.
Could he have been a member of Freemason Dove Lodge #51 when James Beverly Ward was in Richmond on business and joined that Lodge?
The Grandmaster of Dove Lodge #51 (1860-1862) when Ward joined was F J Boggs who formed his own Confederate Company March 13, 1862 by offering a $50 enlistment "bounty", becoming a CSA Major.
Boggs Company was incorporated into the CSA 1st Virginia Infantry.
Is there a connection between the Richmond Howitzers and the 1st Virginia Infantry?

 

[franklin]

From wikipedia,

FINANCING
"The American government used $3 million in gold as a down payment, and issued bonds for the balance to pay France for the purchase. Earlier that year, Francis Baring and Company of London had become the U.S. government's official banking agent in London. Because of this favored position, the U.S. asked the Baring firm to handle the transaction. Francis Baring's son Alexander was in Paris at the time and helped in the negotiations.[45] Another Baring advantage was a close relationship with Hope and Company of Amsterdam. The two banking houses worked together to facilitate and underwrite the Purchase.

Because Napoleon wanted to receive his money as quickly as possible, the two firms received the American bonds and shipped the gold to France.[45] Napoleon used the money to finance his planned invasion of England, which never took place.[46]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Purchase

Who had possession of the $3,000,000 in gold? The US...or Company of London and Company of Amsterdam?

Napoleon never got that gold. It was placed on a French Vessel in New Orleans. When it got to Florida it was chased up the Suwanee River. That is where you will find the $3 Million in gold. That is why Risque wanted a government position in Florida and why his grandchildren all moved down to Florida wouldn't you think.

 

[ECS]

Napoleon never got that gold. It was placed on a French Vessel in New Orleans. When it got to Florida it was chased up the Suwanee River. That is where you will find the $3 Million in gold. That is why Risque wanted a government position in Florida and why his grandchildren all moved down to Florida wouldn't you think.

After the Revolution, John Adams set up several sovereign bank accounts in Europe, in the Netherlands and England, and the 3 million in gold for the down payment was already in Europe, and was transferred to France by Barings and Co of London and Hope and Co of the Netherlands, the balance was paid by bonds held by these companies, which the US finally paid off in 1823.

The 3 million in gold being shipped from New Orleans never happened, just another treasure tale similar to the story of a Confederate shipment from the New Orleans mint captained by John Riley (an actual CSA blockade runner whose name appears in several Florida CSA treasure lore tales) chased up the Suwannee River and dumping his cargo before he and crew were killed. (The real John Riley Bless McIntosh, April 5, 1819- May 10, 1901, was never captured, survived the WAR, but his name was used in the 1/2 ton Confederate gold lost in the Everglades story)
Another variation on the Louisiana Purchase money has the shipped being attacked by pirates and the gold buried somewhere in Florida's SW Ten Thousand Islands.

 

[bigscoop]

After the Revolution, John Adams set up several sovereign bank accounts in Europe, in the Netherlands and England, and the 3 million in gold for the down payment was already in Europe, and was transferred to France by Barings and Co of London and Hope and Co of the Netherlands, the balance was paid by bonds held by these companies, which the US finally paid off in 1823.

The 3 million in gold being shipped from New Orleans never happened, just another treasure tale similar to the story of a Confederate shipment from the New Orleans mint captained by John Riley (an actual CSA blockade runner whose name appears in several Florida CSA treasure lore tales) chased up the Suwannee River and dumping his cargo before he and crew were killed. (The real John Riley Bless McIntosh, April 5, 1819- May 10, 1901, was never captured, survived the WAR, but his name was used in the 1/2 ton Confederate gold lost in the Everglades story)
Another variation on the Louisiana Purchase money has the shipped being attacked by pirates and the gold buried somewhere in Florida's SW Ten Thousand Islands.

1823, again.....lol