Coin Shops

[CherryPickinTeller]

Was at work this morning and noticed this guy who was taking halves out of a coin album and putting them thru the machines. Went over to help him and he told me he had 7 albums of halves and 5 albums of old dollars. He then told me he went to a coin dealer and the ones he was dumping now were the ones the coin dealer said were not worth anything. I asked him what types of halves and dollars he had. He said the dealer bought all the pre 64 halves and the old dollars were from the twenties and earlier. All he was dumping was 2 albums of halves which had about 80 coins in each one. Out of curiosity I asked how much did the coin dealer give you? He told me $3 for the halves and $5 for the dollars.......

Talk about a rip off. This guy looked like he was in his mid 30's and I'm guessing he had no idea as to how much they are worth. I couldn't even tell him how much they were actually worth because it probably would have killed him knowing he got ripped off for that much money..

Anyway a nice 64 Quarter from the reject today

 

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[Treasure_Hunter]

If I own a coin shop and I want to offer less or pay less, that is my business as the owner of a business in America. They are not obligated to do more for collectors other than buy and sell.

When you buy a car do you do your research for the best price or do you buy from the first dealer you see on the road?
If one dealer charges a $1000 more than another dealer is he ripping the buyer off?

It is the consumers job to do the research.

 

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[maverick]

I agree that a consumer should do his/hers research, and shame on them if they don't, but, there are people who take advantage of people who haven't done their reseach out there too. Yes, if they knowingly are offering CONSIDERABLY less than the value of an item becuase they know the consumer doesn't know any different, then I would consider that being dishonest. It can be justified any number of ways but, if you TAKE ADVANTAGE of lack of someones knowledge, then what is that considered then, just me offering you less? I run my own business by the way, and I don't take advantage of the fact that someone didn't do there research, I am honest and tell them the market value for a service and what I am going to charge them and why, I don't over charge them because they didn't know any better, I realize not everyone is like this, but I am. HH, Maverick.

 

[jerseyben]

There is a BIG difference between taking advantage of someone and making a lousy deal due to inexperience/age/ignorance/desperation/laziness/trust/etc. I think a lot of people really blur the line between these 2 concepts. A lot of people like to live in a fantasy world where they think business owners have the consumer's best interest in mind. While it is not ethical to knowingly defraud people, it happens and it happens every single day. There is a bigger picture lesson to be learned here.

Whether it be big business corporate America or a small town coin shop - LET THE BUYER BEWARE!

 

[unclehuckelberry]

Here's a good story if anyone is interesting in reading it.
Coin Dealer Ethics - Elderly Lady and Her Jar of Coins

 

[jerseyben]

Here's a good story if anyone is interesting in reading it.
Coin Dealer Ethics - Elderly Lady and Her Jar of Coins

READ MY POST ABOVE. Perfect example, thank you for illustrating my point.

In the story you posted the guy was CLEARLY defrauding people. Not the same as someone who goes to a coin shop with a printout from Coinflation.com only to find that the shop is only paying $4 per 90% half. That is not defrauding people, (being cheap sure), but perfectly acceptable and that is absolutely 100% how it works in the real world.

 

[ivan salis]

let the seller beware --works just as well --as let the buyer beware --when one is talking silver coin values and worth -- many coin shops will pay for very little for coins-- even the decent shops will pay based on silver melt value (about 90 - 95 %) and almost all of em will pay nothing extra for decent grade or rare low mintage / mint mark type coins unless their ultra rare and in great ciondition and you know it ahead of time -- they will be saying they are just buying it for "scrap value" --then they will go thru and cherry pick the good ones for "mark up" and retail sale.

 

[ArkieBassMan]

One thing no one has considered here is that not all coin shops are created equally. A small, low-volume shop cannot pay the same prices as a large high-volume shop and stay in business. A small shop has to make more money per transaction than a larger one simply because they do not make nearly as many transactions...just like Wal-Mart can probably sell an item cheaper than your local 'Mom and Pop" store can even purchase that same item to sell. Also, someone selling $100 worth of coins should not expect the same price per coin as someone selling $10,000 worth of coins. When a coin shop is buying just a few coins at a time, they should not be expected to pay anywhere near the same price per coin as a place like APMEX or Provident metals pays for $1000+ worth of coins. Also, coins shops pay cash on-the-spot, whereas you have to wait for a check (and risk theft through shipping) if you sell to one of the "big" buyers. I don't think its unreasonable to expect less cash for your coins for this convenience.

This is where I personally draw the line for a business transaction being "dishonest": When the buyer intentionally misleads the seller on the item's true value. For example, if you were attempting to sell me $100 melt-value worth of silver coins and I say something like, "You have about $20 worth of coins there, and thats what I'll pay." I personally consider that dishonest. If I merely said, "I'll give you $20 for those coins.", I do not consider that as being dishonest. Maybe thats splitting hairs, but thats the way I personally see it.

With that said, I do believe that it is 100% the seller's responsibility to know what their item is worth. You can only get "ripped off" in a coin shop if you allow yourself to do so!

 

[Iron Patch]

Here is why threads and posts like these piss me off. All of you will go into a business a couple times with your vast knowledge of "value" and turn your nose up, walk out disgusted, and make it your mission to tell anyone who will listen how much of a rip off the business is. All the while, you have no clue what the overhead of the shop may be. You have no clue what the rent, the utilities, the payroll, or the taxes are. Yet, you have the vast knowledge of "value" to know that the business owner should be paying you 90-95% of the "value" of the item, then turn around and only attempt to sell it at 100% of the "value". Let me clue you in people, that business goes out of business in less than 6 months, and the owner lost his livelihood, his dream, his savings, and there is a good chance he lost his family. The "value" of something is only what someone else is willing to pay for it, not what a book says it should be. If the dealer is only willing to pay $3 for a coin, or .01 for a coin, that is the "value" to him. You are asking for his money, so your perceived "value" means squat! that doesn't make him a rip off, that makes him someone who is knowledgeable about his business, and what he needs to do to stay in business. If you don't like the prices, be polite, and leave. then go somewhere else to see if you can do better.

Not to mention many of the same people who are so critical of these so called shady practices are quick to brag when they score a deal at another person's expense. The bottom line is it sucks to be stupid, or do stupid things, and selling something without knowing the value puts you there, or means you do not care.... and in either case it's not the buyers responsibility.


PS: Dealers who pay very little are also the ones who do little business and don't last. (unless of course there's a lot of stupid people where they are)

 

[ArkieBassMan]

AMEN! Well said and totally spot-on!

I don't know how old you are but there is an increasingly growing mindset/trend that I am calling the "ebay generation". Young folks who have the internet at their fingertips expect everything to have a set price. The old concept of something being worth "what someone is willing to pay" is coming to an end. The world is changing dramatically and we are shifting from a physical/localized world economy to a globalized/virtual world economy. The art of negotiation is being lost.

A few years ago I would have told you that everything I just described is a good thing. However, the problem with all of this is that IN THEORY and ON PAPER it all makes perfect sense. Unfortunately, IN THE REAL WORLD, someone is ALWAYS going to take their cut. Additionally, there is the expectation that these things have a set value but THEY DONT UNDERSTAND WHY. All they know is, "this is what my phone says I should get for it". So when a person walks into a coin shop, pulls out their phone, and starts rattling off ebay prices, there is a big disconnect between the "real world" and the new digital online economy (ebay).

I call it the "Not My Fault" generation. If I sell my coins too cheaply, It's not my fault! The coin dealer ripped me off. If I get fat, It's not my fault! Sodas are too big and fast food is too fattening. If I smoke for years and contract lung cancer, It's not my fault! Big tobacco conned me into using a product that killed me. Etc., etc., etc.

 

[GlenDronach]

I think also, that eBay has changed the market. In the past, you couldn't follow the prices of coins like you can today. You'd have to subscribe to a magazine/circular/buy the red book. Now you can get instantaneous information about the value of the coin in the real market (eBay). It used to be sell locally for the best price. Now you have people that are looking at those items nationwide. The other downside of this is that people pay more nationwide. People see the price and say "Look, it's selling for this on ebay, I want at least that." They don't take into account that they'd be paying about 15% total on eBay to sell it, plus the time and hassle of listing and shipping.

The biggest offender IMO is estate/garage sales. If I wanted something for eBay prices, I'd sit at home in my underwear and bid. I want a deal, and I want to inspect it before I buy. I'm not going to leave the convenience of the internet to pay the same price for someone's unwanted items.

 

[jerseyben]

I think also, that eBay has changed the market. In the past, you couldn't follow the prices of coins like you can today. You'd have to subscribe to a magazine/circular/buy the red book. Now you can get instantaneous information about the value of the coin in the real market (eBay). It used to be sell locally for the best price. Now you have people that are looking at those items nationwide. The other downside of this is that people pay more nationwide. People see the price and say "Look, it's selling for this on ebay, I want at least that." They don't take into account that they'd be paying about 15% total on eBay to sell it, plus the time and hassle of listing and shipping.

The biggest offender IMO is estate/garage sales. If I wanted something for eBay prices, I'd sit at home in my underwear and bid. I want a deal, and I want to inspect it before I buy. I'm not going to leave the convenience of the internet to pay the same price for someone's unwanted items.

While for the most part, I agree with your post, you have to take into consideration the "I want it now" factor. Some people will pay a little bit more for that instant gratification of being able to hold it in their hand, inspect it personally, and take it home with them.

 

[cudamark]

It is not just like a thief. A thief does not "offer" theft, and the LCS is not forcing one to sell to them.

I agree. You have to educate yourself as to what you have and what it's worth before you enter negotiations with a buyer or seller. If you don't like the offer, try someone else. To call a LCS a rip-off if they don't give you what you want, is childish. If they have 200 Kennedy halves in 40% and they aren't selling, why would they want to pay top dollar for more? They have bills to pay like the rest of us and an overhead most of us don't have. They have to make hundreds if not thousands each month just to break even and do so in competition against other sellers (on E-bay and elsewhere) that have very little overhead. I don't envy them at all but would miss them if they're economically forced out of business. Dealing with someone face to face is getting to be a lost art.

 

[Iron Patch]

Another point is... when someone walks in a shop they'll always get asked what they want, and if they don't have an answer, who's fault is that? And when they reply, "what will you give me," why is a low offer a crime? If anything, with the internet and so many thousands, (or millions) of people becoming sellers we're going to hold one dealer accountable because he didn't pay enough?

So if someone walks up to you with a new $1,700 detector and says it's for sale, and you say how much, and he gives the reply... what will you give me? You only have $300 in your pocket and offer that... And he takes it! You refuse and tell him to go to the pawn shop to try and get more, or do you buy it and come brag here about your great deal. I know what everyone Does! (and it's not giving out the directions to that "crooked pawn dealer."

 

[maverick]

Hey Arkie, yes, this is the point I was trying to make, you just explained it better than I did. I tell the customer what it's worth first, and then what I am willing to do for them and why my price is what is is, full disclosure. HH, Maverick.

 

[how u do n]

When a person goes into a coin shop to sell bulk silver the shop has to make money.
Most shops will pay a fair %. What needs to be said is if silver is going for 21xface they can not pay 21xface.
A fair price would be 18.5 to 19x face.
Also, everyone need to remember that silver trades on the Comex so, the price can and,does change several times a day.
You can go into a shop at 10 am and get 19xface and 30 min later it is only 18.5 x face or even 19.5 or 20x face.
Yes, there are really bad shops out there just like in any other business. The bad ones you just laugh and, stay away from them.
The good ones you share with your family and,friends. But, like the old saying goes let the buyer beware. It also goes let the seller beware.
Just a little phone call can save a lot of $$.
Good luck hand

 

[cooper36]

Was at work this morning and noticed this guy who was taking halves out of a coin album and putting them thru the machines. Went over to help him and he told me he had 7 albums of halves and 5 albums of old dollars. He then told me he went to a coin dealer and the ones he was dumping now were the ones the coin dealer said were not worth anything. I asked him what types of halves and dollars he had. He said the dealer bought all the pre 64 halves and the old dollars were from the twenties and earlier. All he was dumping was 2 albums of halves which had about 80 coins in each one. Out of curiosity I asked how much did the coin dealer give you? He told me $3 for the halves and $5 for the dollars.......

Talk about a rip off. This guy looked like he was in his mid 30's and I'm guessing he had no idea as to how much they are worth. I couldn't even tell him how much they were actually worth because it probably would have killed him knowing he got ripped off for that much money..

Anyway a nice 64 Quarter from the reject today

Did you see any 40%s My coin dealer wont take them he says he cant sell them.

 

[halfhunter]

Anyone watch Pawn Stars

 

[Dark]

This is just as bad as a car mechanic ripping off an old lady.
It is dishonest and pathetic.

 

[agme]

Did you see any 40%s My coin dealer wont take them he says he cant sell them.

I don't get that. Provident buys all I can send them. They paid about $4.75 each for the last two lots that I sent. Depends on spot, of course.

 

[GarouLady]

I don't get that. Provident buys all I can send them. They paid about $4.75 each for the last two lots that I sent. Depends on spot, of course.

Thing is Provident Metals, you have to have a lot of them in order for the company to take them. I have 3 40% and a variety of foreign silver but provident wouldn't take them because I am not at the minimum amount. and my local coin shops won't take them either, not even at melt.

sincerely,
garoulady