Club claim question

[LRC253]

I'd like to first start this post by saying I'm not going to say any names unless I feel like it's necessary but I'm really trying to get down to the bottom of my concern.

I joined a well known club and recently while I was doing some research found out that half of the "claims" this club is advertising aren't actually claimed at all. According to lr2000 there aren't even any closed claims on the land that were theirs either.....nothing..
There are 2 in the owners/clubs name and the rest are owned by someone else who probably is just getting paid to use the claim.
I was also just told that 1 of their claims is on top of newer stream that was man made because the new Hwy was built on the old channel.

To me it feels like they are taking advantage of people, and the more I look into this, the more the pieces fall into place.
I would like to know if anyone has any input on this and if this is a common thing for clubs to do? or are my suspicions right?

 

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[Bonaro]

Couple things...LR200 is usually at least 6 months out of date from current records and have many omissions. It should only be used as a reference, not an authority.

I am guessing you are speaking of Washington Prospectors Mining Association. They are Washington's largest club and are very reputable. I am a member and have worked most of their claims. I also hold an HPA for several and as a result have researched the boundaries for that purpose and all have been spot on. You need to get your info from BLM or pull the County recorded file if you want to fact check with this much scrutiny.

The claim on top of the newer stream would be the Megan Marie claim and that is correct...it is also correct for many of the claims on Peshastin creek because when the Highway department came through and built the current road in the 1920's they straightened it out by relocating the creek in many places.

It is common for a club member to "loan" a claim to the club or the club to lease a claim for the club's use. These claims are commonly listed as being part of the club although the actual true ownership lies elsewhere. The only point of concern is that they are secured for club use.

As a member and user of these claims, does it really matter what the actual ownership is so long as you have express permission from the club to use it?

I guess you have to decide what you prefer, the drama of conspiracy or the enjoyment of prospecting... if you choose the first you will have to put a little more effort into your research before you can say others are taking advantage of you... have fun

 

[LRC253]

Hmm.. interesting take on what my question was, I do appreciate your opinion though. I also know that claims can take up to 6 months for it to register on lr2000 but these claims have been supposedly active for years and years. Oh and by the way I'm not talking about WPMA but was looking to join them instead of the one I'm currently a part of. I have put much time in my effort which is why it kind of bothered me as it should you if people are getting ripped off.

 

[ratled]

If the club list you have access to X number of claims and you have access to X number of claims how are being ripped off? It is common for clubs to agreements with claim owners for their members to have access to claims. These can change from time to time. I would say all of the clubs operate like this - New 49ers, UPI, GPAA etc.

I'm really not sure what your "suspicions" are or your concerns concerning this. There have been some less than above board clubs but most of the lasting ones have been fine

ratled

 

[LRC253]

ratled, maybe it's too late and my typing skills are shot for the evening.

I'll try to make this as simple as possible. Say there are 10 claims and 5 of them aren't claims they are just directions to a random location and called a claim so technically anyone and their mom can go there and prospect and people are being sold memberships to access these "claims"... That is how I think people are getting slighted.

Like I was saying I'm not trying to publicly bash a club and didn't mention names, just wanted opinions if this is right or wrong.

 

[ratled]

I know there is one larger club that does this. I guess it all comes down to how the pitch it to you and if you are getting what you paid for. If not press on, there enough good enough ones out there to not worry about it. I would be more concerned on well the properties performed rather than how they were held - as long as it was all legal, but that's just me

ratled

 

[kayakpat]

Don't worry, most people don't realize they are not real clubs, most are a for profit business, they might like to prospect but their reason for being is profit. So find one you like, enjoy the members and use their claims.

 

[Goldwasher]

Do they list any of the serial #s. I agree if they are saying it is a claim to get you to pay for exclusive access then that's not cool. The lr200 isn't the way to find out. Did you discover this on your own or discuss with another member? I would look for monuments and cross reference at the county. Hell, if it isn't really claimed is open to entry and has color on it then well......You are most of the way to starting your own personal claim........

 

[goldenIrishman]

I would at least check into the land status as well as any claims in that area. If it turns out to be legit then great! If not... It could be claimable or could even be private property. Do your research at the county recorders office and see what you turn up. Remember that if it's private property, the club may have secured access to it for their membership.

 

[LRC253]

Goldwasher and goldenIrishman - Thanks for your feedback, and no the membership packet doesn't give serials. I also called them and asked them specifically if they own/lease all their claims. He said they owned all of them except for 1 which they have permission from the land owner. I've heard from other members that the claims in question didn't produce good results. I actually stumbled on it originally from viewing mylandmatters.org which I originally thought was probably an error by not having them marked as claims, then looked into county records as well as lr2000 and still nothing.

Anyways thanks again for everyone's feedback...I'm not going to make a huge deal about it with the club, but will move forward with more knowledge about how some clubs operate and will make a better decision the next go around and if friends are thinking about joining I can give them facts and not let them pay for a bunch of b/s.

 

[dredgeman]

Yes you are right the liberty and many claims are public access for anyone even if they are not part of the CLUB that is selling memberships.

Many have fallen to the Chris scheme. Enough said.

 

[Goldwasher]

What do you mean by "claims" with "public access" even if not part of a club....that doesn't sound like a "claim"

 

[fowledup]

It can also be advantageous to the club by borrowing or loaning a member claim as it will not count against the total number of owned claims by the club, resulting in lower annual fees and more mining oppurtunities for the members.

Flip side, I know of one local claim broker who also operates a club style pay to play program. The availible claims are those waiting on a buyer and may only be a county filing, no BLM. Little too gray for my liking.

 

[Rdg Sluicer]

Everyone always bags on LR2000. Personally I haven't had a problem with it. I have looked up known claims and the info has always been accurate and like the OP I have looked up club claims before mostly so I know where the exact boundaries are and I have never not been able to fine them on LR2000. It makes sense LR2000 would be a little behind but if the claims have been active for years there is no reason they shouldn't be on the LR2000.

 

[Bonaro]

It boils down to this...if a club owns a valid mining claim, has an agreement with another claim owner for use, has permission to prospect private property or has directions to a sweet spot on non claimable land none of those areas to prospect would have been available or known to you unless you joined the club. You are getting a lot in return for your measly membership fee. How is this being taken advantage of?

and it's still beyond my understanding why you would be so motivated to investigate the club claims in the first place

 

[LRC253]

You must have not read through the thread as it explains how I stumbled upon it. If misleading or lying about claims that don't exist is ok with you and beyond your understanding then fantastic... hope your business does great. However, it's surprises me how it seems you feel threatened by a simple question that you honestly didn't have to respond to. You are right the measly membership fee was under $100 but that's besides the point. But again, if you read my last post this conversation was over with...Just added another business to my list though.

 

[Doug Watson]

Have you gone to the county court house in question to check the status? It would help if you were a little more specific as to what claim you're talking about. Lots of suggestions without any specifics.

 

[Goldwasher]

You must have not read through the thread as it explains how I stumbled upon it. If misleading or lying about claims that don't exist is ok with you and beyond your understanding then fantastic... hope your business does great. However, it's surprises me how it seems you feel threatened by a simple question that you honestly didn't have to respond to. You are right the measly membership fee was under $100 but that's besides the point. But again, if you read my last post this conversation was over with...Just added another business to my list though.

I think you've done everything right. And the fact that something was fishy and you looked into more and asked questions is commendable. If you did find a scam or anything unlawful and prevented and one from being scammed or lied to even if it was just yourself then good job.

 

[Bonaro]

You must have not read through the thread as it explains how I stumbled upon it. If misleading or lying about claims that don't exist is ok with you and beyond your understanding then fantastic... hope your business does great. However, it's surprises me how it seems you feel threatened by a simple question that you honestly didn't have to respond to. You are right the measly membership fee was under $100 but that's besides the point. But again, if you read my last post this conversation was over with...Just added another business to my list though.

I dont feel threatened at all, I feel surprised. I have read all of your posts and it seems you first made a cursory search on LR2000 and then jumped to a lot of conclusions and started bashing the club without having the benefit of knowing how almost every club manages their claims. In my mind, if I am given express permission from the club to use a location that is all I need. I belong to a half dozen clubs and never felt the need to verify any of their claims packets. I find it highly unlikely that a business would attempt a scam as you suggest, they wouldn't be in business long. Maybe if you redirected your energy from investigation to research you could easily find your very own claim?
Good luck to you

 

[Doug Watson]

I'd like to also point out that most clubs are "for profit" mainly because of the cost of locating filing and maintaining the claims that are there to use. I can't begin to count the amount of hours I've spent in cleaning up after others on claims, printing out new claim markers and reposting them after people tear them down etc. I am and have been a member of lots of clubs and they all have different personalities but I really haven't had any complaints about any of them and if I don't care for one I just don't renew. I've also heard all the complaints about no gold on the claims and some are better than others and some have gold that's spotty but just because "someone" doesn't find gold on a claim doesn't mean it's not there. Running a club and keeping claims open is an awful lot of work and is not cheap and it gives people a place to go in an area without all the hassle involved when most areas with gold are claimed pretty heavily, and if you are talking about the Swauk or Blewett area it's really hard because most of that area has been claimed tight for years. I'm not trying to defend anyone but if you're going to accuse someone or a club of something come out and say it not he said she said stuff. Rumors running around in the prospecting community aren't something we need when we've got so many other battles to fight.