Cleaned Livery Button with Griffin

[Erik in NJ]

For those that saw the original encrusted scan of this button and the "cleaning-in-progress" (with vinegar) scans, here the cleaned button. I bought some bees' wax and tried to rub it on, but it only seemed to cake up on the details of the button. I have heard of people applying wax or bees' wax to coins and relics to help them retain their moisture and bring out the details. What's the trick....do you mix it or soften it with something? Anyway enjoy the pics. I am going to have a British military button that was damaged restored by an expert and may have him touch up this button as well as it's quite compelling. I can see lots of detail including scales at the base of the wing, both hands, and flames (or feathers) emanating from its chest. The full backmark is also visible: P&S Firmin, 153 Strand & 13 Conduit St, London.

 

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[BuckleBoy]

Very cool find.

 

[70monte68]

Nice find and great preservation!

 

[oldsoapy]

Nice job of restoration . Hutch.

 

[ticm]

Nice job of cleaning. It's a cool button

 

[Erik in NJ]

Thanks guys. I think I may have an expert take it that extra step as I'm just a novice at cleaning and restoration. Has anyone ever had a button re-gilded? I'd like to get some of the divots filled in and then maybe have it re-gilded if possible. I'm sure it's not worth anything monetarily, but historically its valuable to me and a memory of a great holiday and detecting with my friend Geoff the Chef in England--I also think it displays quite well. Any advice regarding a pro touch-up would be appreciated. Thanks!

 

[got2dig]

Nice button I love Griffins, they are so cool.

 

[steelheadwill]

Very nice Button!
And great work on restoring it

regilding is a fairly straightforward process,
(and you can use the equipment for your electrolysis too)
best to plate with nickel first, keeps the copper from bleeding thru.
then hit it with a layer of gold.
pm me if you want more info. HH to ya

 

[Westfront]

Cool button and great results with cleaning. I don't know the wax rubbing method, but i have some of my finds cleaned, soak them in destilled water to remove all acids and then cooked in melted antique wax. The wax goes into all porosities and leaves a surface that only needs a little polish to get a nice look.

 

[Dutch-Digger]

I have a simular one, found it last week on a field. Can anyone give me information about who had these? UK soldiers? Maybe a special team or something? Or some background behind this team?

I really like the history behind items and I am very curious about this one

 

[Red-Coat]

I have a simular one, found it last week on a field. Can anyone give me information about who had these? UK soldiers? Maybe a special team or something? Or some background behind this team?

I really like the history behind items and I am very curious about this one

Welcome to Tnet.

The word ‘livery’ comes from the French ‘livrée’ (meaning ‘delivered’ or ‘bestowed’) and was used in reference to those who provided domestic service to nobles and aristocrats. Everyone from stable boys to manservants. Companies providing service at a city level could also be ‘granted livery’. So, those ‘staff’ would wear livery that indicated the ‘master’ for whom they worked, with the imagery on things like buttons taken from family crests and such.
The ‘masters’ would not usually wear livery themselves beyond perhaps a ring or a pair of cufflinks but by the late 1800s it became fashionable for family members to sport such buttons. Sometimes they can be traced to an individual family name but they were also generically produced for those with pretentions to grandeur, using borrowed heraldic imagery from established crests.

The Griffin, as a heraldic emblem, has a number of family associations but was also used generically for pretentious reasons. it’s important to find an exact match when trying to attribute them to particular families (or companies). Some examples here:

https://sites.google.com/site/liverybuttonsidentified/home/griffin

 

[Steve in PA]

Welcome to Tnet.

The word ‘livery’ comes from the French ‘livrée’ (meaning ‘delivered’ or ‘bestowed’) and was used in reference to those who provided domestic service to nobles and aristocrats. Everyone from stable boys to manservants. Companies providing service at a city level could also be ‘granted livery’. So, those ‘staff’ would wear livery that indicated the ‘master’ for whom they worked, with the imagery on things like buttons taken from family crests and such.
The ‘masters’ would not usually wear livery themselves beyond perhaps a ring or a pair of cufflinks but by the late 1800s it became fashionable for family members to sport such buttons. Sometimes they can be traced to an individual family name but they were also generically produced for those with pretentions to grandeur, using borrowed heraldic imagery from established crests.

The Griffin, as a heraldic emblem, has a number of family associations but was also used generically for pretentious reasons. it’s important to find an exact match when trying to attribute them to particular families (or companies). Some examples here:

https://sites.google.com/site/liverybuttonsidentified/home/griffin

I never knew the background behind Livery Buttons.

 

[Dutch-Digger]

Welcome to Tnet.

The word ‘livery’ comes from the French ‘livrée’ (meaning ‘delivered’ or ‘bestowed’) and was used in reference to those who provided domestic service to nobles and aristocrats. Everyone from stable boys to manservants. Companies providing service at a city level could also be ‘granted livery’. So, those ‘staff’ would wear livery that indicated the ‘master’ for whom they worked, with the imagery on things like buttons taken from family crests and such.
The ‘masters’ would not usually wear livery themselves beyond perhaps a ring or a pair of cufflinks but by the late 1800s it became fashionable for family members to sport such buttons. Sometimes they can be traced to an individual family name but they were also generically produced for those with pretentions to grandeur, using borrowed heraldic imagery from established crests.

The Griffin, as a heraldic emblem, has a number of family associations but was also used generically for pretentious reasons. it’s important to find an exact match when trying to attribute them to particular families (or companies). Some examples here:

https://sites.google.com/site/liverybuttonsidentified/home/griffin

So I live in the south-east of the Netherlands, does it mean someone bought these from a store in London (Thompson, Conduit st.) and gave it to it's personel/staff?
And can you tell me anything about the age of this button?

 

[erfranks]

Came out alot better, Great Save!

 

[Red-Coat]

So I live in the south-east of the Netherlands, does it mean someone bought these from a store in London (Thompson, Conduit st.) and gave it to it's personel/staff?
And can you tell me anything about the age of this button?

Yes, or the button was worn by a family member, or pretentiously by someone full of self importance. I don't know the exact dates for the manufacturer but P. Thompson was a small maker reported as operating from 11 Conduit Street in London in the 19th Century.

Can you show us the button itself?

PS: in some cases these small and poorly documented 'makers' turn out to be tailors or outfitters who were buying their buttons from someone else, but with their own name stamped on them.

 

[Elvis]

Awesome job!!!

 

[Red-Coat]

There’s some potential for confusion here. The only button pictured is the Firmin example from ‘Erik in NJ’, posted more than 8 years ago.

'Dutch-Digger' has woken up the thread recently, describing a similar button from another maker for which we don’t yet have a picture.