claim broker shysters

[fowledup]

Every so often I check Craigslist and Ebay to make sure I don't see familiar pictures of claims for sale that I know for certain aren't. My lord if you want to see whose honest and whose not, now is a good time. Take a look and check out the lead in's to their sales pitches - "Dredgings legal", "the bans over", "dredging opens this June", "start mining immediately everything transferable" and my personal favorite "never been mined". People got no scrupples, fricken crooks!

 

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[goldenIrishman]

Not all of the people selling claims are shysters. There are a few on there that actually legally have the claims that they're selling and have worked them. Keep your fingers crossed and check with the county recorders office for the county records. THEY are the trump card when it comes to claims. Any info you get from BLM is only a record of fee payments. Researching claims can get to be very involved and there are time you have to do a LOT of digging into the old records to find the true status of a section of ground.

 

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[fowledup]

LynnDigger, sorry for the panic. I was politely calling out a few local folks who knew damn well what they were doing with their "marketing strategy" when I started this thread. Didn't mean to give you a coronary event. Without giving any significant details, and if you don't mind sharing tell us what state and county, guaranteed someone on hear can PM you back and either set your mind at ease about your transactions or at least give ya notice to sit down first before receiving anymore bad news. And honestly if they turn out legit which most will, if you are ok with what you spent and they provide value and pleasure to you, than it was a good deal.

 

[Goldwasher]

Did you get quit claim deeds? Do you have copies of all the blm filings and recordings from the counties mailed to you with your name on the paperwork...STAMPED as recieved. No offense but, you are the exact person that a claim flipper looks for. I have to ask it sounds like you have never prospected before why seven claims? if you have your serial numbers all of the information you seek is very easy to find.

 

[Alex Burke]

Hi LynnDigger sorry to hear of your issue, if no one else pm'd you I can try and look up your claims and pull land status/claim history for them. The earliest I will be at a computer with the Internet is Tuesday though so maybe someone here can help before then, if not I can try and help on Tuesday. Alex

 

[winners58]

LynnDigger what state are the claims in, its a little early for any in-stream mining
the problem with buying online is, is there gold on the claim?
some places the north fork will have gold but the south fork wont
or a claim will be miles above were the gold comes in.
if you could give us a general area that the claims are in we could give more info.
as far as legal a quit claim has to be notarized then recorded with the county recorder
then sent to the BLM state office and I think it has to be done within 90 days
but in the mean time any filing deadlines still have to be meet like intent to hold or assessment work
You can run an LR2000 report on the claim itself or TRS or run a report on your name (all caps)
under mining claim reports, https://rptapp.blm.gov/landandresourcesreports/rptapp/menu.cfm?appCd=2

as far as buying online use a credit card or some purchase protected way if somethings not right you can get your money back

what you receive should have a notary stamp, recorders stamp and
you should be able to see at least a date of something happening on the BLM registry page


also be sure you own the claim before mining, if its filed over someone else,
some claim owners are over protective and carry guns, just a FYI

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

No politics please...

 

[augoldminer]

The biggest thing i have seen here in calif is people trying to sell jumped claims and even jumped patented mines.
Another problem is school sections being claimed and sold to the unsuspecting.

 

[chlsbrns]

If the sellers did not find a valuable mineral deposit that is marked by a discovery monument then the claim is not valid. The quotes below are all from the BLM Handbook.

"The rights granted by a mining claim protect against a challenge
by the United States and other claimants only after the
discovery of a valuable mineral deposit."

"all mining claims and sites must
have a location or discovery monument."

"For traditional placer claims, in addition to proof of a dis-
covery of a pay streak, each 10 acres must be shown to
be mineral-in-character (there is a reasonable expectation
of further economic mineral under these lands)."

"The claimant is required to show a
reasonable prospect of making a profit from the sale of
minerals from a claim or a group of contiguous claims."

“…where minerals have been found and the evi-
dence is of such a character that a person of ordi-
nary prudence would be justified in the further expen-
diture of his labor and means, with a reasonable
prospect of success in developing a valuable mine,
the requirements of the statute have been met.”
The U.S. Supreme Court approved this definition in
Chrisman v. Miller, 197 U.S. 313 (1905).

 

[chlsbrns]

This is what is required by the BLM to prove a discovery of a valuable mineral deposit. It is what is required in Court if the validity of your claim is disputed.

Notes on General Practice
Publication Info:
Placer Examination - Principles and Practice
Technical Bulletin 4 Bureau of Land Management

Table of Contents

1. DESCRIPTION OF SAMPLES

A mining claim may be validly located and held only after the discovery of a valuable mineral deposit. When it becomes necessary to determine the validity of a claim and the sufficiency of discovery is in doubt, the Government will initiate contest proceedings during which the testimony is given by parties to the contest and their witnesses. During such proceedings, assay certificates or other sample data are submitted as evidence of value, or lack of value. The sample and assay data are important in that the hearings examiner or the court must rely on them to a large extent to determine if a valid discovery has been made.

But numerous decisions hl\ve pointed out that in order to fully understand the results of these assays, the method in which samples were taken and tested must be considered. Without such information they have little probative value and, accordingly, are entitled to little evidentiary weight.

In brief, an accurate and systematic record should be kept of each sample through the cutting, processing, and calculation stages. The use of suitable printed forms will expedite the data recording process, and, equally important, will serve as a check list and lessen the risk of oversight. Three such, forms prepared specifically for BLM use are included in the appendix.

Complete, accurate and signed sample records are in effect legal documents and they should be prepared and preserved with corresponding care.

2. REDUCTION OF SAMPLE VOLUMES

In typical gold placers the variations are so great and the values are so low, any attempt to divide a sample by taking alternate shovels, mechanical splitting, or by other means will invariably yield erratic results. Rather than set out supporting theory which at best would be academic, two examples are offered to show what actually happens. One is based on a laboratory experiment and the other on field practice at an operating mine. First consider the laborabory experiment.

The foregoing examples show that the splitting of gold placer samples should be strictly avoided unless there is some very special reason to divide a sample or reduce its volume before washing or other treatment. In cases where this must be done, the mineral examiner should be fully aware of the erratic and probably misleading results likely to follow. Any divergence from normal procedure should, of course, be noted in the sampling records and in subsequent reporting.

When dealing with fine-size placer materials having a low unit-value, such as magnetite or ilmenite sands, a substantial reduction of the bulk sample or of its concentrate by mixing and splitting is generally a proper procedure and a common practice.

3. REPORTING VALUES

In the United States, the volume of placer material is always reported as bank-measure cubic yards and the value is customarily reported as cents per cubic yard.

In addition to the calculated value, the actual weight of gold in milligrams, its fineness or estimated fineness, and the price of gold used in the value calculation should be noted on the sample sheets as well as in subsequent reporting.

Minerals other than the precious metals are reported as pounds per cubic yard, percent, or the particular unit customarily used for the commodity in question.

4. COST ESTIMATES

One of the mineral examiner's functions is to give a qualified or expert opinion as to whether a given mining claim or mineral deposit has present or potential value. Among the evidence to he examined and weighed in forming his judgement will the question of costs. In many cases there is a factor so ohviously weak that a detailed cost study is not necessary, in fact, it would he useless. Here, a rough approximation hased on experience and common sense will usually suffice.

But in other cases a careful consideration of this question will he necessary. If the deposit has not he en completelyhlocked out and sampled, or if the mining method and working rate have not heen firmly estahlished, an accurate cost estimate is not possihle. Iri the absence of such development work, all the mineral examiner can do is to make a qualified estimate hased on comparative data from reliahle sources, or from his own experience with similar properties.

Basically, he must decide whether the deposit contains enough gold or other salable mineral to cover:

Cost of operation.
Cost of all equipment.
Royalties or cost of land.
All exploration, sampling, and pre-operating costs.
Cost of borrowed captial.
Cost of start-up delays and contingencies.
Reasonable profit.
In turn, some of the factors influencing the operating cost will he:

Type of operation (dredge, hydraulic, sluiceplate, etc.)
Size and tenor of the deposit.
Character of the gravel and bedrock.
Water supply.
Grade for sluices.
Disposal area for tailings and muddy water.
Working season.
Regulatory laws (land restoration, etc.)

If the foregoing are kept in mind and weighed intelligently, a fair cost estimate can usually he made hy comparing the subject property with a similar property where mining operations have heen conducted and costs established. But just how to obtain these cost data and how to equate them to today's inflated prices is one of the practical problems encountered in applying the comparative cost method.

First, we find that because of the depressed state of the placer mining industry there are few operations from which up-to-date costs might he extracted. Second, anyone who has tried to obtain detailed cost data from a responsible operating company has soon found that such information is considered confidential and seldom released for outside use. While the small operator may be freer with his information, it will usually be found that he did not bother to keep systematic records and his cost figures may be little more than a guess.

This means that for the most part, the mineral examiner will have to rely on the few placer cost data available in the technical press, most of which are fragmental and over 30 years old. A list of the more useful and readily available sources has been placed at the end of this section.

To update the older figures, a year-by-year cost index will be needed. The annual index for various classes of construction, construction materials, lahor, and machinery can be ohtained from Engineering News-Record magazine. The March (quarterly review) issue will he found particularly helpful.

In the absence of comparative data the estimator is on his own. In such cases he may have to work up estimated costs based on a hypothetical operation using a method or coinhination of methods proven effective in similar deposits elsewhere. This estimating procedure has been illustrated by Staley and Storch in a two-part article titled "Choosing a mining method for gold-hearing gravels." This article has heen listed among the selected references which follow.

 

[winners58]

Who? only the feds can require a validity test, certainly not someone interested in acquiring a mining claim.
tradition, common law, law of possession, the mining laws, surface resources act of 1955, FLIPMA of 1976
you only have to prove validity if the land is subsequently withdrawn or applying for a patent.
a mining claim is self initiated grant and a non-discretionary assertion of right of possession.
mineral rights, mineral interest are the same thing and is more properly referred to as the mineral estate.
a mining claim is a possessory title and if the mining claimant is successful in developing and proving a valid claim you are supposed
to be able to acquire the title to the land. until then you can prospect, mine, have others mine it, sell it, and even leave it in your will.

Placer Examination (Wells)

 

[chlsbrns]

Who? only the feds can require a validity test, certainly not someone interested in acquiring a mining claim.
tradition, common law, law of possession, the mining laws, surface resources act of 1955, FLIPMA of 1976
you only have to prove validity if the land is subsequently withdrawn or applying for a patent.
a mining claim is self initiated grant and a non-discretionary assertion of right of possession.
mineral rights, mineral interest are the same thing and is more properly referred to as the mineral estate.
a mining claim is a possessory title and if the mining claimant is successful in developing and proving a valid claim you are supposed
to be able to acquire the title to the land. until then you can prospect, mine, have others mine it, sell it, and even leave it in your will.

Placer Examination (Wells)

Placer Examination (wells) is where I quoted from in my last post.

"I. DESCRIPTION OF SAMPLES
A mining claim may be validly located and held only after the discovery of a valuable mineral deposit. When it becomes necessary to determine the validity of a claim and the sufficiency of discovery is in doubt, the Government will initiate contest proceedings during which the testimony is given by parties to the conlest and their witnesses. During such proceedings, assay certificates or other sample data are submitted as evidence of value, or lack of value. The sample and assay data are important in that the hearings examiner or the court must rely on them to a large extent to determine if a
valid discovery has been made."

If/when we head west next winter we will not file claims. We will go right to heavy gold deposits shown in USGS files and extract the valuable mineral deposit. If we happen to be on someones claim due to not seeing or not having their required corner and discovery monuments and the claim owner shows up we can and will dispute the validity of their claim...

The Government will then initiate contest proceedings during which the testimony is given by parties to the conlest and their witnesses. During such proceedings, assay certificates or other sample data are submitted as evidence of value, or lack of value. The sample and assay data are important in that the hearings examiner or the court must rely on them to a large extent to determine if a valid discovery has been made."

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/gold-prospecting/453731-claim-broker-shysters-6.html#post4866232

 

[nh.nugget]

Give it a rest ALREADY! I come to this forum to research and learn some thing. Not to listen to someone thinking they know it all over and over again. If you want to argue with a claim owner in the wild GO AHEAD it's your neck. This seems to happen quite often I know here in NH. ones that think they know it all don't know jack. Book smart is book smart but a little common sense and boots to the ground go along way! sorry Mod's

 

[chlsbrns]

Give it a rest ALREADY! I come to this forum to research and learn some thing. Not to listen to someone thinking they know it all over and over again. If you want to argue with a claim owner in the wild GO AHEAD it's your neck. This seems to happen quite often I know here in NH. ones that think they know it all don't know jack. Book smart is book smart but a little common sense and boots to the ground go along way! sorry Mod's

For the most part forums are the worse place to learn "something" and do research due to those who make claims as if they are facts but their claims are inacurate. See previous post!

 

[chlsbrns]

and what evidence would you submit that you found a valuable mineral deposit ,
you are not allowed to prospect on an active claim even if monuments are knocked down or stolen.

if this happens to anyone PM me and I will give you a copy of this forum as proof of intent.
holy cow you really showed your true colors in that post.

Why would we submit anything showing that we found a valuable mineral deposit? We have no intentions of filing any claims.

Anyone can prospect/sample on an invalid claim.

Proof of intent? Our intent to follow the letter of the law?

if this happens to anyone PM me and I will give you a copy of this forum as proof of intent.
holy cow you really showed your true colors in that post.

Hummmm..... I think that those who see your post will also see mine. Pm you to get something that they can get themself?

 

[nh.nugget]

I have, this site is one where I learned the specific's of how to build my dredge. And by the way it works great! I have also learned a more efficient way to recover gold from my cons and not with burlap and Crisco! And I enjoy some of the other members stories. Just because you think it's your way or the hi-way sorry doesn't work that way. Everybody is entitled to their opinions. You made your point let it go. Mining is a recreation thing for me I don't claim to know it all don't want to either. If people want to get ripped off let them it's not your money not my money. sorry Mods.

 

[DizzyDigger]

Give it a rest ALREADY! I come to this forum to research and learn some thing. Not to listen to someone thinking they know it all over and over again. If you want to argue with a claim owner in the wild GO AHEAD it's your neck. This seems to happen quite often I know here in NH. ones that think they know it all don't know jack. Book smart is book smart but a little common sense and boots to the ground go along way!

I'd "LIKE" this post twice if it was allowed...

 

[chlsbrns]

I have, this site is one where I learned the specific's of how to build my dredge. And by the way it works great! I have also learned a more efficient way to recover gold from my cons and not with burlap and Crisco! And I enjoy some of the other members stories. Just because you think it's your way or the hi-way sorry doesn't work that way. Everybody is entitled to their opinions. You made your point let it go. Mining is a recreation thing for me I don't claim to know it all don't want to either. If people want to get ripped off let them it's not your money not my money. sorry Mods.

When someone posts that I am incorrect then I post showing they are incorrect. Doesn't that make it apparent that they still don't get it? I guess you are right! They should give it up!

There is a difference between an opinion and a fact.

In two weeks We got over 21 oz using fish oil and burlap. Let me know how long it takes you to get 21oz. The gold that we get using burlap is gold that blows off sluices expecially dredge sluices.

 

[nh.nugget]

You know I don't care how long it takes me. I do it as a hobby NH. doesn't have volumes of gold but it has enough to keep me happy. I stand corrected fish oil not Crisco.

 

[Oregon Viking]

Give it a rest ALREADY! I come to this forum to research and learn some thing. Not to listen to someone thinking they know it all over and over again. If you want to argue with a claim owner in the wild GO AHEAD it's your neck. This seems to happen quite often I know here in NH. ones that think they know it all don't know jack. Book smart is book smart but a little common sense and boots to the ground go along way! sorry Mod's

I'd "LIKE" this post twice if it was allowed...

Here you go Diz.....

 

[Oregon Viking]

When someone posts that I am incorrect then I post showing they are incorrect. Doesn't that make it apparent that they still don't get it? There is a difference between an opinion and a fact.

In two weeks We got over 21 oz using fish oil and burlap. Let me know how long it takes you to get 21oz. The gold that we get using burlap is gold that blows off sluices expecially dredge sluices.

Pics?