Civil war ID ring!!!!

[Mark1985]

G.RICHARDSON.CO.K.57.MASS

 

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[Jones Indiana]

I'm with Mark on this one with the ownership. Believe in private ownership hopefully it's not locked away never to be seen by the public.

In the end that's the owners choice.


Like to see more research to tell the whole story. Part of that story would be the present including the living relatives.


Also wonder if anyone in that unit had rings like this since people are monkey see monkey do.

My theory is a ring fitter might have outfitted this unit with rings, unlikely but possible. The research on that would be time consuming.

 

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[Erik in NJ]

In the end that's the owners choice.

I guess the really difficult question is "who is the owner?" Is it the hero who purchased the ring with his money, lost the ring, and then lost his life during the war, is it the suviving next of kin, is it the property owner, or the guy who recently found the ring. Please spare me the "9/10ths of the law quote" as I'm not even sure what that means. So ethically, who owns the ring?

If you leave your car keys on the train, do you still own them after the conductor or another passenger picks them up? How about if you drop your passport or driver's license somewhere, is it automatically someone else's property as soon as they pick it up?

If you drop a $1000 bill on public property and you and I both go to pick it up and I pick it up first, is it mine to keep, unencumbered (even if I offer to give you a picture of it)? It's not so cut and dry--is it?

 

[vadigger89]

Awesome piece of history saved there!! Congrats!! My brothers name is Jason he showed me a picture today on his phone and told me his friend found it. I believe that is the same ring he showed me today. Do you know a Jason that lives in Gainesville Va. Just curious.

 

[Jones Indiana]

If it was found on public property score 1 for We the People..........If it was found on private property score 1 for a Citizen.

Score a big W for a Citizen.

You want to take things out of context and bring a passport or current lost money into this debate?

As for research have recovered lost art and other artifacts. Usually charge 10% of the value regardless of recovery.

Sometimes do charity.


Have the research done to ID tintypes in The Museum of the Confederacy. Really snotty emails where sent to me (they should fire the kid they pay $8 dollars a hour that does the emails and hire a more friendly person at $20 a hour) . They can keep the attitude and not have anything. Doesn't bother me.

Amazing how they want everything for free and oh can you do all the work to? Thats when you put a foot up thier rears.

 

[Mark1985]

Awesome piece of history saved there!! Congrats!! My brothers name is Jason he showed me a picture today on his phone and told me his friend found it. I believe that is the same ring he showed me today. Do you know a Jason that lives in Gainesville Va. Just curious.

I think he might have seen it on the Virginia relic hunters thing on Facebook

 

[Silver Searcher]

That is a super rare piece of American history A once in a life time find indeed. As for the debate I would have thought since there are living decendents, then I would assume the ring belongs to them, but I am not familiar with US laws, it's a real sticky one....but Great find and congrats on making a well deserved banner

SS

 

[Mark1985]

As far as the lost an found comment I look at it this way were not talking about 10 minutes or a few day were talking about 150 + years ago

 

[Mark1985]

Up dated photos

 

[Worm-Slicer]

Definitely keep it! Like many have said, a big percentage of families would care less about it being from their history and toss it into a drawer or sell it. It would be fine giving them information, but for something lost over a hundred years ago, to most people that do not have a love of the Civil War, it will have little meaning even if it was their ancestor. Just because it may be from their family past does not mean they have the right to it either. My family traces back to the original Jamestown settlers and is even on the original names list they have there, but anything lost there with any of my ancestors names would be great to have, but no...I don't feel like I would have any more right over it than the person that found something like that. Actually less right and in my opinion finder's keepers applies in things like this and you have every right to keep it!

 

[ChrisNJ]

Pardon me for giving some un-asked for but realistic advice. I advise diggers not to simply hand over personal-ID military relics to the soldier's decendants. I know from my own experience as a relic-dealer that the majority of descendants care more about the relic's dollar-value than anything else. They'll sell grandpa's personal relics to buy a TV. If you doubt it, take a look at all the personal identified WW1 and WW2 relics for sale at shows and on Ebay.

Let me make clear, I am not saying we shouldn't return a 20th-Century civilian-usage item, like an engraved wedding ring or school ring. I'm just talking about high-value Historical Military relics. (A 20th-Century soldier's dogtag is not high-value.)

If a descendant can be contacted and he/she expresses interest in their soldier ancestor's high-value personal-identified relic, I'd give him/her "first shot" at buying it. If you simply give it to them, experience shows that the odds are better than 50/50 that it'll be for sale on Ebay (or somewhere else), sooner or later. Sad, but true.

I also think the odds are better than 50/50 that Mark's personal-ID civil war soldier's ring means more to him than it would to any of Pvt. Richardson's descendants.

I agree whole heartedly and that was my very first thought when it was mentioned a relative was found, big whoop, a third cousins brother 15 times removed would love to have that rare object, he will cherish it up until the cash is received from its sale.
Modern idable rings are good to return to their owners or next of recent kin.

 

[Erik in NJ]

As far as the lost an found comment I look at it this way were not talking about 10 minutes or a few day were talking about 150 + years ago

There are a lot of folks on this site that go to a lot of trouble returning lost items to folks (or their next surviving kin). It would be interesting to know what your threshold timeframe is for returning an item. Interestingly enough not one of your posts has even provided a hint that you have any interest whatsoever in contacting the family regarding the ring. I do hope the media does not get wind of this thread, because as far as I'm concerned it's just plain embarrasing to the hobby and to this forum should it be made public. Many detectorists I have met here are some of the most upstanding folks I have known and I am proud to have made their acquaintance.

 

[Erik in NJ]

I agree whole heartedly and that was my very first thought when it was mentioned a relative was found, big whoop, a third cousins brother 15 times removed would love to have that rare object, he will cherish it up until the cash is received from its sale.
Modern idable rings are good to return to their owners or next of recent kin.

And what if he has a surviving grandson or granddaughter who cares?

 

[Worm-Slicer]

Well let me ask you this, the person that addressed me. What makes me the recipient of something you found that old, when in the least...I mean LEAST there are hundreds of relatives of his, maybe even hundreds of great great great great grandsons. Something even older has even more relatives. What about something from Roman times? Give it to a relative when there are thousands upon thousands of descendants and just pick one of them randomly that you feel automacially is deserving of it? It's nothing like a classring from the 60's someone lost with a few kids. I can see returning something like that, but come on, this is 150+ years old and with a family tree that far back it could be potentially thousands of relatives and how in the world could you decide on which one to give it to, which one is more deserving,?? I say if a person is going to give it to a relative, something of that age, the best way to know it will go to someone that will really appreciate it is to offer them fair market value. No, and I'm not about money cause I've never sold any relic, coin or anything. That's just my feelings on this matter.

 

[Worm-Slicer]

Well I am all about history of items. Every place I hunt with significant history, I label and date the item. I'm just saying that for something that old there is no one relative of theirs that has any more right over the piece than the person that found it and there will be more than one relative deserving of it and wouldn't make it right to just give it to one if say it is a great great great grandson and there may be two other great great great grandson's. I am never about selling relics, but I say that if you really wanted to give it to a family member, and wanted to know beyond a doubt it was going to someone that really cherished and appreciated it and valued it for what it is, the only real way you could was sell it to them fair market value. If they pay a few thousand for it then you know it will mean alot to them to put that money into it. I'm totally different on modern items though. I would return anything I could ID like that from say World War II on up, mainly because you have a more limited number of family members and more directly related. I do understand what you say about researching and finding out about the family and all. I just disagree about just giving it to a random descendant, something of that age, because family trees swell in numbers in that amount of time.

 

[Erik in NJ]

Well let me ask you this, the person that addressed me. What makes me the recipient of something you found that old, when in the least...I mean LEAST there are hundreds of relatives of his, maybe even hundreds of great great great great grandsons. Something even older has even more relatives. What about something from Roman times? Give it to a relative when there are thousands upon thousands of descendants and just pick one of them randomly that you feel automacially is deserving of it? It's nothing like a classring from the 60's someone lost with a few kids. I can see returning something like that, but come on, this is 150+ years old and with a family tree that far back it could be potentially thousands of relatives and how in the world could you decide on which one to give it to, which one is more deserving,?? I say if a person is going to give it to a relative, something of that age, the best way to know it will go to someone that will really appreciate it is to offer them fair market value. No, and I'm not about money cause I've never sold any relic, coin or anything. That's just my feelings on this matter.

Let me ask you this: What if he has one or two suviving grandchildren? Is it worth the effort to find out? Regardless of how many relatives he has, is it worth the trouble to notify the family regarding the find? I think this is the point Crusader and I am trying to make. You have a man's name and details on the ring. You have the man's photo that was posted here.....this is not an anonymous CW find of sorts. Let me put it in perspective for you -- when I was a young boy (and I'm not that terribly old) there were some CW vets still alive.

 

[WHADIFIND]

I will just keep this as short as I can. I have read the entire thread.

Mark? I am on your side. But, don't let my feelings or ANYone else's get in your way. Do what is in YOUR heart! It's yours and yours alone. If you hadn't found it, it probably would've never even been known. You have found your current "best find of a lifetime". Do as you see fit. Any who disagree, don't bother to engage me in discussion about morals. This is as far as I'll go.

NOW, with that said.

To all my fellow T-Netters.

This thread has cemented my feeling about posting a SUPER find here.
I come here to chat/discuss/share the wonderful feelings of finding something special and to congratulate others on their awesome finds.
But, if I find anything that is super spectacular, I'm sorry, but after seeing where someone has just decided, on their own, to place pressure on the finder by directing an email to the family, pointing out this thread. I am sorry, but in my mind, that is just plain gauche! To me, THAT, is the business of the finder ALONE! For shame !

If I find that 20 dollar gold piece, I'll share. But, if I find a pair of spectacles inscribed with Martha Washington's full name, well, maybe I'll share that too.

Way to go Mark!

 

[Worm-Slicer]

Sure, Erik,it's worth finding out, but not just giving them the relic. Just think of it this way. Say he had one son. Well say that son had two sons and a daughter and each of those had children, then each of those had one or two. The point I'm making is that far back no one is suddenly deserving of it just because it was someone in their family tree. Sure, it's great learning about the family and I don't see anything wrong with that, or contacting them about details, but in my opinion the digger is the one most deserving of a find like that and I'm sure the one person who will most appreciate it most of all.

 

[Worm-Slicer]

Crusader, no research needed, there are many relatives of anyone from that long ago, even if he had no children. If he had brothers and they had kids and those kids had kids. Well then they are still related to that soldier. There's not going to be just one or a handful of descendants of anyone when you get back that long ago, I don't need to research or anything to know that. Just plain ole common sense.

 

[Worm-Slicer]

Um, you first replied to me about your stance on returning a relic to me if it was my family history and I was discussing that. I also said to another person on here there is nothing wrong with letting family members know the history, photos of the item or soldier. I just totally disagree about giving it to a random relative after that many years. People have different opinions on here, but that is mine and it will never change.

 

[Worm-Slicer]

Well it was a good discussion anyways and just good to get my opinion out there. I'm sure this issue will go up and down a lot more on this thread. Anyway, it's a great find and ultimately up to the finder what happens to it. So I'm off my soap box now. lol