Civil War Fuse???????

[sneaky6]

Hello T-Net,

Thanks for looking and thanks in advance for your help!

In the past 2 years, my digging partner and I have dug a handful of similar brass objects that at a glance remind us of Civil War artillery fuses. The "fuse" is hollow which can not be seen in the pics. There is evidence in the form of scrapes on the outside of the object that it has been forced into a hole (maybe a shell). Likewise, the inside of the fuse seems to have had something forced into it as it has long scrapes as well.

We have dug these items in three different locations in eastern Virginia. At each spot we have found Civil War items and specifically both Union and Confederate Artillery buttons.

If anyone can help with an ID....I would greatly appreciate it!!

Keep Digging!!
Sneaky6

 

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[duggap]

I think you will have to look at something else as the answer. I ran it thru my book on fuses and I can't find anything close to your piece. Sorry I don't have any ideas on what it is.

 

[Lucas]

Looks like a bushing.

 

[sneaky6]

@Duggap

Thanks for looking in your fuse book. I had briefly thumbed through one myself a while back at a local Civil War Relic shop and came up with a similar result. The proprietor of the store who has been digging since the 1970's (and is a walking encyclopedia) thought it looked like a fuse to him, but we could not ID it. Thanks again for your help.


@ Lucas

A bushing!! No one had suggested that one before. Thank you. I will look into it.


Thanks to everyone for taking a look!!
Sneaky6

 

[sneaky6]

Bump!!!

 

[traderoftreasures]

almost like the bushing of a lawn mower wheel

 

[DirtyMike]

These are known as fuse adapters. Cool find!

 

[sneaky6]

Thanks, Dirty Mike!! I will be "googling" fuse adapters shortly. Have you seen any mention of them in any Relic/CW books?

Keep Digging,
Sneaky6

 

[DirtyMike]

There are 2 examples in my Mason and McKee- Civil War Projectiles 2 . On page 152 they are numbered 51 & 52. Listed as unknown fuse adapters.

Thanks, Dirty Mike!! I will be "googling" fuse adapters shortly. Have you seen any mention of them in any Relic/CW books?

Keep Digging,
Sneaky6

 

[taz42o]

Model T spindle body bushing.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Lucas is correct... it is some sort of bushing (which is made of brass) -- definitely NOT an artillery fuze or any part of one. I'm absolutely certain about that, for three reasons.

1- Artillery fuzes need to have some way to grip the shell's body. That is why artillery fuzes are either tapered or have threads and wrench-slots. These brass bushings have none of those characteristics.

2- In 37 years of civil war artillery collecting, and digging, and even writing an encyclopedic book about civil war shells and fuzes, I've never seen even a single one of these brass bushings that shows explosion-damage or high-speed-impact damage. Logic very strongly suggests that some of them ought to show such damage, if these items are fuzes or fuze-related.

3- I own two dug specimens of this same brass bushing which show serious "rotational wear" inside the circular tunnel through them. That kind of wear comes from these bushings being mounted on a rotating iron shaft. (The shaft has to be a much harder metal than the bushing's brass body in order to "eat through" the brass.)

Very unfortunately, these brass bushing are mis-identified as being a Confederate fuze in the early-1970s edition of the book "Civil War Projectiles" by McKee & Mason. Also very unfortunately, the many errors in that book have never been corrected in any of the several subsequent re-printings of that book. So, some people continue to devoutly insist they've found a rare Confederate fuze, despite the reasons listed above, particularly reasons #1 and #2 (total lack of battle-damaged specimens).

Taz42o's info and photo are very interesting. He may be correct. However, I'm not 100% sure these bushings are from a Model T, because their form is a little different than what is shown in the photo. The Model T one does not have a bevel at the bottom of the tube (the bevel is visible in Sneak6's photo). I think the way to know for sure about the Model T bushing ID is to precisely measure the internal diameter of the Model T bushing's tube. If that diameter matches up exactly with the internal diameter of the dug specimens, we may have found a definite match. Anoother important question (which I don't know the answer to) is, does the Model T spindle-body rotate? (Remember the severe rotational-wear inside my two specimens.)

Until that info is available, they remain an unknown brass rotating-shaft bushing. I'd previously theorized they might be a doorhandle shaft-bushing, because I've seen a very similar brass bushing on the shaft of antique doorhandles.

 

[taz42o]

Yes the spindle rotates when you steer the car so the inside of bushing wears but outside does not.
I think outside diameter of those bushings is about .691.
On the one dug you can see where someone used a chisel to get it out of the spindle.
Keep in mind the pic of one i posted is brand new replacement once installed they are reamed to align upper ad lower and also faced making the top lip thinner.
also other old vehicles had similar bushings of different size, 40s willys for one, but I think the one in question is model T.

http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/modeltparts/frontaxle

http://www.t-parts.com/SpindleBushingToolInst.html

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Taz, thank you for answering my questions - and for providing the Links to the info. I asked for them because I intend to announce your definite-ID of the mysterious not-a-fuze "dug relic" bushing to the relic-hunting (and artillery-collecting) community ...so I had to be absolutely certain the ID is correct. The info & links you provided are fully convincing. I'll now start announcing the definite-ID you've provided. Particularly on behalf of the artillery-shell-&-fuze-collecting community, I say thank you very much. You've solved a 45-year mystery for us.

The modern replacement Model-T bushings are copper. The 1909-1927 originals were bronze -- and so are the "dug-relic" bushings.

Particular proof is the exterior and interior diameter of the bushing. The T-Parts link you provided says the original (1909-1927) spindle-bolts were .502-inch diameter, so the bushing's interior diameter needed to be just slightly larger. I used digital calipers to precisely measure my three dug bushings' interior. It is consistently .503/.504-inch. My three dug bushings' exterior diameter matches the .691-inch measurement you supplied. So, I am fully convinced.

Here are some dug bushing images I found on the internet. The middle bushing shows the "internal rotational-wear" that two of my specimens have. (But the internal wear on mine is even more extreme.) The other image is a scan showing these bushings mis-identified as being (Confederate) fuze-adapters, in the McKee-&-Mason book "Civil War Projectiles II".

Thanks again!

 

[Monty]

Are you saying that M%M mis-identified them or did one of our members mis-identify them? I have the M&M book and it is my understanding they were found where an artillery battery was used? Man now I am confused. If M&M goofed I think I will try to contact one of them or the publisher and see what they have to say. My first thought was bushing also though I have to admit. Monty

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Monty, it was Reid McKee and M.E. "Mac" Mason who misidentified them. Unfortunately, you cannot contact either of them now, because both authors passed away in the 1980s. Those guys were "Pioneers" in the civil war relic collecting field, who created the book in the late 1960s. As the book indicates, their main focus of study was on bullets. Back then, there was only one "detailed" Artillery refence-book about civil war fuzes, an extremely rare book published in 1867. In the 1960s, almost none of us knew that book existed. So McKee and Mason did the best they could with the VERY limited info that was available. If an item looked like a fuze and was dug near a cannon-position at a battlesite, they figured it probably was an "unknown fuze" ...which is what they call these bushings in their book.

That's an understandable error for relic-book Pioneers to make. For whatever it's worth to know, about 30 years ago I myself dug one of these bushings in the city of Fredericksburg, in a yard near the old Orange Plank Road, about 50 feet from where a CS artillery battery was set up during the battle.

I was personally involved in re-printing the McKee-&-Mason book in 1980. But the guy who owned the book's Copyright didn't want to pay the extra money necessary to do a Revised/Updated edition of the old (1972 or thereabouts) version of the book. So, its errors were not corrected.

The book has been reprinted again since then. Still no error-corrections.

 

[BioProfessor]

%#*%$ kids driving their T's over a battle site. Never change.

Daryl

 

[taz42o]

Does make you wonder how they got there.
With over 15 million model Ts made at 4 bushings per car is over 60 million bushings not including all the aftermarkets.
I would think they would be dug all over the place but maybe they are and no one pays any mind to them unless they think they are civil war related.

Has anyone here dug them at non battle sights?

 

[umrgolf]

Does make you wonder how they got there.
With over 15 million model Ts made at 4 bushings per car is over 60 million bushings not including all the aftermarkets.
I would think they would be dug all over the place but maybe they are and no one pays any mind to them unless they think they are civil war related.

Has anyone here dug them at non battle sights?

Dug all over in SC, NY, VA, MO, & AR for the last 3 years and never seen one.. hunted all last year near an 1800's artillery training ground and huge fort, 100+ Eagle A buttons- mystery items, nada

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Does make you wonder how they got there.
With over 15 million model Ts made at 4 bushings per car is over 60 million bushings not including all the aftermarkets.
I would think they would be dug all over the place but maybe they are and no one pays any mind to them unless they think they are civil war related.

Has anyone here dug them at non battle sights?

Great research. I think you will only find the ones that have been replaced. Im just curious, did people repair their cars on the side of the road? Or are these found near home sites?

Are these the same? http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,206196.0.html

 

[taz42o]

Bigcypresshunter,
The four bigger ones look like T bushings measurements would tell for sure.
The small threaded one is not a model T bushing, I dont know what it is.