Civil War buttons? Help?

[Spartcom5]

(Not Civil War buttons) Okay everyone so this is has been quite a bit of work. I got a bag of buttons for free at a garage sale. I think. Any help is greatly appreciated. I doubt any of these are rare or really expensive but just being this old and in this good of condition is very cool to me. Plus I am new to buttons!

This first button gave me trouble. It reads JR CA?? & Son L'td


This one reads M.C. Lilley & Co. / Columbus


Reads Horstmann Phila.


Reads Scovill Mf'g Co.


Next buttons are weird... They feel and sound weird no idea about them. Reads England Best Quality


Again no idea. Reads Meyer (star logo) New York


Reads Scovill Mf'g Co. Waterbury.


Reads C Kenxon Co.

 

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[relic lover]

Those are a lot newer than the Civil War.

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[Spartcom5]

Some aren't as early as the civil war but some seem to be unless I am looking at the wrong thing.... http://www.thebuttonmonger.com/content/BUTTON BACKMARK INFORMATION.pdf

I am confused there are too many different things maybe they are WWII haha I don't know. The backmarks confuse me.... They aren't civil war, oh well, they were free! Worth a shot.

 

[relic lover]

Pretty sure that they are great seal buttons which are basically World War 1 era more or less

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[Spartcom5]

Ahhhh gotcha, I just read this, dang I got excited for a little bit haha Identifying US Military Uniform Button Backmarks - Age, Type, Design, and Construction quote from there I just found, "Keep in mind that using Scovill backmark lettering (including dots and stars) is not a foolproof method because Scovill often used old backmark dies to make newer buttons. Thus it is possible to have a World War I "Great Seal" button with an 1850 backmark."

 

[sprailroad]

WWI to WWII perhaps, but still very neat, different backmarks and wear. Remember each of those were worn at some time by somebody, makes them kind of special in a way, like so many of the buttons we find.

 

[nhbenz]

We adopted the great seal logo on U.S.Army buttons in 1902 and still use it. Until 1910 they had no outer rim. Until 1923 there was a black finish applied. So, that leaves the one with the England backmark, which I'm uncertain about. My guess would have been WWII if not in the same group as as the earlier buttons.
J.R Gaunt & Son is the backmark on the first one.
The one with the Meyer backmark would have read "N.S.Meyer"... odd that it seems to have had the initials obliterated.

 

[fyrffytr1]

Here's a link to a thread by BigCypressHunter that will help you date your Great Seal buttons.
http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/112828-great-seal-button-backmarks-help.html

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Ahhhh gotcha, I just read this, dang I got excited for a little bit haha Identifying US Military Uniform Button Backmarks - Age, Type, Design, and Construction quote from there I just found, "Keep in mind that using Scovill backmark lettering (including dots and stars) is not a foolproof method because Scovill often used old backmark dies to make newer buttons. Thus it is possible to have a World War I "Great Seal" button with an 1850 backmark."

They say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. I believe that was my quote made here at TN years ago (when I tried to figure this out) and copied by Inkspotantiques, along with much of our Great Seal backmark research here at TreasureNet. I may have made that quote here years ago while researching backmarks but I still believe it could be true because I have found older backmarks on newer buttons. The research is in there somewhere. Maybe they were just using up old stock, I dont know.. But you almost have to look at a photo of the backmark itself, especially Scovills, at the type and size of lettering (serifs or block lettering), along with dots and stars, RM raised mark, RMDC raised mark depressed channel, large CO, small Co, etc. also determines the age. And of course you need to look at the front side.

I have to update the Scovills backmark part here at TN along with possibly adding photos and I just havent gotten around to doing it yet. That being said, all Great Seal US Army buttons are 1902 or newer, no matter what the backmark is. I believe the rim was added in 1910 so your rimless Scovills are 1902-1910, as was said by nhbenz.

There are many different backmarks on Great Seal Army buttons, and I am discovering new ones on a regular basis. It would be a challenge to try and collect them all but an interesting collection it would be. We have a member rockermike17368 that has an extensive collection and was writing a book on Great Seals. Dont know if it has been published yet. Here is where I made that quote. http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/112828-great-seal-button-backmarks-help-25.html

And here is a page from "American Military Button Makers and Dealers: Their Backmarks & Dates," a great research book given to me by CannonBallGuy. You maybe could match your backmark here or maybe you have a different variation.

 

[nhbenz]

If I'm seeing them correctly the matching pair of Scovill buttons are cuff size, is that correct? If so, the backmarks often are not exactly what you you will find listed in the books, as usually they only list coat sized button backmarks. With the limited space on a cuff button words are often abbreviated in various ways, for example.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

If I'm seeing them correctly the matching pair of Scovill buttons are cuff size, is that correct? If so, the backmarks often are not exactly what you you will find listed in the books, as usually they only list coat sized button backmarks. With the limited space on a cuff button words are often abbreviated in various ways, for example.

Yes I would think cuff buttons are usually abbreviated. The page I posted does illustrate one cuff on the bottom right (red arrow)1860 and later but it has 3 stars so its not a match. The book covers buttons from 1790-1920 so apparently this backmark is not illustrated. I dont see it listed either but I may have missed it.


If I dont have it on our Great Seal list, I should add it. But my entire list on TN needs updated and may have errors because I was learning as I went along and I havent added or corrected anything for a long time as more information became available. The last page would have the latest list.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Spartcom is that a star * before the S in *SCOVILL on the cuff buttons or is that a large dot?


Im going to add your backmark with a photo to my list if its OK with you because it appears I dont have it. Im going to list this cuff backmark as 1902-1910 until I can find another without the rim. You will see it on the very last page. If your other buttons are not listed, I can add them too. http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/112828-great-seal-button-backmarks-help-25.html#post5462594


In the future Im gonna have to list the button sizes. Of interest here is on my very first page, I have little Scovill cuffs but they are a different backmark. SCOVILL MF'G CO. WATERBURY That was from my first bag of buttons I purchased for 1 dollar. http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/112828-great-seal-button-backmarks-help.html

 

[Truth]

I would love to have those buttons. Congratulations


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