Chinese coin found in Kenya proves trade

[arnofarrell]

Scientists from Illinois have found a rare, 600-year-old Chinese coin on the Kenyan island of Manda.

in Chicago announced the find Wednesday. The joint expedition was led by Chapurukha Kusimba of the museum and Sloan Williams of the University of Illinois-Chicago. Researchers say the coin proves trade existed between China and eastern Africa decades before European explorers set sail.

The coin is made of copper and silver. It has a square hole in the center so it could be worn on a belt. Scientists say it was issued by Emperor Yongle of China and his name is written on the coin.

Scientists from Kenya, Pennsylvania and Ohio also participated in the expedition. They also found human remains and other artifacts predating the coin.


Read more: Illinois scientists find rare coin in Kenya | Fox News






Illinois scientists find rare coin in Kenya | Fox News

 

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[Sheldon J]

Now if he could have only dug up Obamas birth certificate while he was there, or was that what he was looking for....

Sorry my bad ;-)

 

[Mackaydon]

The finding of that coin proves only that it was either placed, misplaced or lost in that location at some time between the date minted and a day before its 'discovery'. Granted, if the coin were found in a matrix of other 600 year old artifacts, that fact would add credence to the article's suggestion. If other items in the same matrix were dated to the 1400's then I'd suggest everyone read Gavin Menzies' book entitled "1491 The Year China Discovered American". It's a fascinating story of the Chinese Treasure Fleets between 1421 and 1423 that includes travels along the coast of Africa by at least three fleets during that time.
'arnofarrel', please keep us updated if there are follow-up articles.
Don....

 

[arnofarrell]

no problem, I will see what I can find.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

This is silly. The date on the coin proves nothing about "who was there first" or "when trade started", etc....

Some of those cache coins that can be found around the world are ridiculously old. Yet those dates don't actually mean that they were circulated and lost in those time frames. Since they appear to have sometimes been introduced into circulation (stored in barrels previously? Or circulated for 200 yrs? etc....) much later. So if one from the 1600's were found in a wyoming RR worker ghost town camp, doesn't mean, therefore, that "chinese people were there in wyoming in the 1600s". Unlike USA coins (where 40 or 50 yr. circulation time might be a norm), those cache coins dates seem to have little bearing on when they were lost.


There was a humorous story that a cache coin was found, and dated, from an indian midden site in the Pacific northwest (oregon or washington). And it dated to one of those earlier types (1600s? early 1700s? I forget). And the archies were "all over themselves with glee" thinking that this somehow showed that the chinese were there, even before the russians and spanish, etc.... I chuckled because I knew, from experience, that these age-coins show up in places that perhaps didn't get "white man" there till the mid 1800s. And you can't go by the dates on the cache coins.


I've found the types I've found and dated here in CA, that could be as far back as the 1600s, for instance, found at locations no earlier than the 1830s to 1860s. (adobe sites, stage stop sites, old-town urban demolitions, etc....). [ Although I suppose someone could say that it still doesn't prove that some chinese trade or person wasn't there, at that adobe site, 150 yr. before the early CA person got there, doh!

]


I have a hunch that the archies/scientists are going off the date of the coin, and making an incorrect assumption that the time-of-loss must be in an approximate time-frame of that. This may be true for other countries coins, but those chinese cache coins have almost no bearing on their dates, vs the time-frame of loss.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

ok, after looking at the source of the news break, I see that it was via scientist from the "Field museum in Chicago". So I went to their website, and clicked on the "contact us" tab. Here's what my note to them said:


This is for the archaeologists who put out the publicity on the Chinese coin found in Kenya. I'm a metal detector hobbyist in California. We had lots of Chinese immigrants come here starting with the gold rush (1849-50-ish, etc..) and for the railroad workers, etc... (1860s/70s, etc...) The date on those cache coins proves nothing about "who was there first" or "when trade started", etc....

Some of those cache coins that can be found around the world are ridiculously old. Yet those dates don't actually mean that they were circulated and lost in those time frames. They appear to have sometimes been introduced into circulation (stored in barrels previously? Or circulated for 200 yrs? etc....) much later. So if one from the 1600's were found in a Wyoming RR worker ghost town camp, doesn't mean, therefore, that "Chinese people were there in Wyoming in the 1600s". Unlike USA and other countries coins (where 40 or 50 yr. circulation time might be a norm), those cache coins dates seem to have little bearing on when they were lost.

I've found those cache coins here in CA from the 1600s, at sites that do not predate the 1830s (If we can rule out pre-contact sites).

There was a humorous story that a cache coin was found and dated, from an indian midden site in the Pacific northwest (oregon or washington). And it dated to one of those earlier types (1600s? early 1700s? I forget). And the archaeologists were "all over themselves with glee" thinking that this somehow showed that the Chinese were there, even before the russians and spanish, etc.... I chuckled because I knew, from experience, that these age-coins show up in places that perhaps didn't get "white man" there till the mid 1800s. Thus you can't go by the dates on the cache coins, to deduce a range/time of loss.

What do you think? Do you think they will respond?

 

[Dr. Syn]

Like Al said to Dirk Pit in the movie "Sahara"

"Coins travel Dirk"

Folks carry coins, as they travel, coins from one place end up in another. Doesn't always mean the date on the coin is the date it arrived there.

Like said unless there is a lot of other items dating from the same time frame in the area, all it could mean is some poor traveler lost his lucky charm.

 

[darthoblio]

Some of those cache coins that can be found around the world are ridiculously old. Yet those dates don't actually mean that they were circulated and lost in those time frames.

This is true, and it's important to keep it in mind. And yet, it seems to be an important principle to modern archaeology that maritime vessels weren't invented until the 14th century or so, and only then by Europeans. It just ain't so.

 

[jeff of pa]

Not another One ?

I guess my 5 or so Chinese coins over the years here in PA prove the Chinese
traded with PA before columbus was born

Can I get some Financing now

 

[tinpan]

Not another One ?

I guess my 5 or so Chinese coins over the years here in PA prove the Chinese
traded with PA before columbus was born

Can I get some Financing now

Hi Jeff For 700 years the most popular gambling game of the Chinese was "Fan Tan" A game of reduction where 200 small items (old chinese coins)are place in a bowl and then split and reduced in number . The process was done until only 1, 2, 3 ,4 remained . Done under a cloth and bets where placed on a square tile with each corner numbered one to four. Win was paid on the number left , only double the amount was paid on the bet laid. Brought to the Western World in the mid -19th century by Chinese merchants, gold miner and labourers.

Sorry Jeff your 195 coins short to play Fan Tan and number 5 in not a winner . You get no thing


tinpan Hmmm Could have i worked out why so many old chinese are found by mders ?

 

[jeff of pa]

Hi Jeff For 700 years the most popular gambling game of the Chinese was "Fan Tan" A game of reduction where 200 small items (old chinese coins)are place in a bowl and then split and reduced in number . The process was done until only 1, 2, 3 ,4 remained . Done under a cloth and bets where placed on a square tile with each corner numbered one to four. Win was paid on the number left , only double the amount was paid on the bet laid. Brought to the Western World in the mid -19th century by Chinese merchants, gold miner and labourers.

Sorry Jeff your 195 coins short to play Fan Tan and number 5 in not a winner . You get no thing


tinpan Hmmm Could have i worked out why so many old chinese are found by mders ?

LOL Thanks for the History Tin !

I've found them in old Rail road Camps,
Ghost towns,
and old 19th Century parks.

makes allot of cents (sense)

as I'm sure you know, here in the US
pre united states mint,
people just used the coins they brought on the ships with them,
so I just assumed one or more were equal to a half cent, depending on the
merchant.

 

[tinpan]

LOL Thanks for the History Tin !

I've found them in old Rail road Camps,
Ghost towns,
and old 19th Century parks.

makes allot of cents (sense)

as I'm sure you know, here in the US
pre united states mint,
people just used the coins they brought on the ships with them,
so I just assumed one or more were equal to a half cent, depending on the
merchant.

Thanks Jeff i know that of the other dozen or so countries at this end of the world which had the Chinese . None made Chinese Coins a "Proclaimed Coinage" Had no value at all. One in three of the total gold rush population was Chinese in my area in 1854 . In a recent trip to a place Berlin Flat Kangderaar Victoria we hunted a chinese camp that had about 1000 there. In Total 3 dozen coins were found and aged between 1780 -1300 AD . A little old to be even used in Imperial China in 1850 ? A Chinaman named Loo Ching also found the 718 oz gold nugget called THE KUM TOW 21 years after the first Chinese gold miner arrived > Recorded by Gold Authority Warden H.J Hughes in the Mining Register Nugget Book 17th April 1871 .Depth of find 12/2 feet. Catto's Paddock . Where's my cheque


tinpan