Cherokkee march the "Trail of Tears"

[AU24K]

Re: Cherokkee march the "Trail of Tears"

Strange. I had just read this thread for the first time after making this post....
Scott


http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,267748.0.html

 

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[morbiusandneo]

Re: Cherokkee march the "Trail of Tears"

Post related to this topic: http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,267748.0.html

 

[morbiusandneo]

Re: Cherokkee march the "Trail of Tears"

Post related to this topic: http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,267748.0.html

This is about their Chief, who took payment in gold himself, if I recall, to sell out his people: http://generalbooks.bookstore.uconn.edu/book/9780820323671 , almost 300 pages, and very likley worth the $30 for the valuable insights that may be in here. And this obscure one, which no info is available for, which is ODD, because it was published in 2007.So, the ISBN is the clue you track down to find a copy via library system : http://generalbooks.bookstore.uconn.edu/book/9780312475253 And here you can plug in some stuff into this search engine: http://www.biblio.com/booksellers/9384/University_Of_Oklahoma_Press_Bookdealers.html NOTE: Work this one hard, as it will likely yield you the best books for clues. I ususally find the best stuff right at the end of the trail, which I am now finishing. HH. ;-) ...........Research is FUN! I've shown you how to do the "legwork".

 

[LadyDigger]

Re: Cherokkee march the "Trail of Tears"

Check out this link: http://books.google.com/books?as_q=...s=&as_maxm_is=0&as_maxy_is=&as_isbn=&as_issn=

This is GOOGLE BOOKS. Check out this one first (it's the third link) >>>John Ross and the Cherokee Indians‎ - Page 89, by Rachel Caroline Eaton - Cherokee Indians - 1921 - 153 pages

On the initial link, it gives the date the book was published, by whom, how many pages. Like the one of John Ross...it was written in 1921 and is 153 pages.

All the books on this initial link are FULL VIEW and you are able to download them to read at your leisure. I hope you will find some useful info in some of these books.

Oh, when you click on the link...you can do a search within the book to find what you are looking for. The search engine is on the left side. (They have updated their look and how to search and all since I started using this to find old books.

You can also do a search for all books relating to the Trail of Tears, but may be limited view, in which you could see if your local library may have the book.

Also, if you type in the authors name, you can get results like this link: http://books.google.com/books?lr=&q...n,+Michael+D.&num=100&as_brr=0&as_pt=ALLTYPES

Of course, this search gives you LIMITED VIEW or NO VIEW at all. But might give you info (ISBN) that you may be able to find a library or someplace where you can read or buy the book.

Good luck on your quest,
Annmarie

 

[morbiusandneo]

Re: Cherokkee march the "Trail of Tears"

ANNMARIE: What a great reply!! I would only add this. Libraries do "Inter-Library loans", so once the number of the book is known, and you can't view it for FREE(THANKS to you!!)at google, then one goes to the library. Ask them to request ity for you via this method, even if they tell you we don't have it, or we can't get it. THEY CAN!

 

[LadyDigger]

Re: Cherokkee march the "Trail of Tears"

ANNMARIE: What a great reply!! I would only add this. Libraries do "Inter-Library loans", so once the number of the book is known, and you can't view it for FREE(THANKS to you!!)at google, then one goes to the library. Ask them to request ity for you via this method, even if they tell you we don't have it, or we can't get it. THEY CAN!

Thank you and I hope you try out the Google Books!

Yes, that is true on 'inter-library loans', however, not all publications and/or libraries will do it. There were some publications I was trying to get from my hometown library (Fayetteville, NC) and they would not do it. So, soon I will make the 4 hr trip 'home' to check out what I tried to get!

To get an 'inter-library loan', just go to your local library with the information you are requesting and they will give you the form needed to fill out (or help you fill it out). They will make the request on your behalf and there is a time limited, depending on the publication you are requesting.

Hope you find all the information you are looking for. Tried doing a newspaper search, but nothing 'old news' I could find.
Annmarie

 

[StarrWulf]

Re: Cherokkee march the "Trail of Tears"

What an amazingly sad and shameful part of our nation's history

Sad, yes SAD, and very shameful indeed. BUT, the US Cavalry only finished off what white man's plagues and the Spanish had started and nearly finished. By the time of the louisiana Purchase 90% of the aboriginal indiginous peoples of this continent were already slowly (300 years)genocided. But, not until as much gold & silver were mined by them for "God & king"!!! stvn.

I respectfully suggest that you do somemore research on the Cherokees in the southeastern U.S. in the times leading up to the Trail of Tears debacle. The Cherokees were settled, prosperous farmers and landowners. They were not hardscrabble dirt farmers and wanderers. The fact that they owned rich, valuable farmlands put them into the gunsights of Congress. Congress passed laws forcing all native Americans to be relocated to the Indian Nations, where they could be lumped together in an area of land that had little value to the whites. Heh, Heh, Heh. Until oil was discovered around the turn of the 20th century.

I get SOOOOOOOOO tired of hearing about the "poor" cherokees and how upstanding they were... while no doubt some were, it is not true of them in general... just ask the Creeks whom the cherokees, receiving government money and weapons, forced to walk their own trail of tears... thanks to backstabbing cherokees.. got what they deserved. "Remember Horse Shoe Bend"

on a side note, after the early indian wars and the atrocities committed on both sides, it would not have been possible to live together in peace. My father, to his dying day, denied any indian heritage. it has only been fashionable, in the last 40-50 years, to admit to being part/full indian. In the early 1700's the theory of evolution was making the rounds among the 'intellectuals', laying the groundwork for Darwin's book and providing justification for slavery and white supremacy (Nazism).

 

[GrayCloud]

Re: Cherokkee march the "Trail of Tears"

Ummm, Sounds like some anger management issues.

 

[StarrWulf]

Re: Cherokkee march the "Trail of Tears"

What an amazingly sad and shameful part of our nation's history

Sad, yes SAD, and very shameful indeed. BUT, the US Cavalry only finished off what white man's plagues and the Spanish had started and nearly finished. By the time of the louisiana Purchase 90% of the aboriginal indiginous peoples of this continent were already slowly (300 years)genocided. But, not until as much gold & silver were mined by them for "God & king"!!! stvn.

I respectfully suggest that you do somemore research on the Cherokees in the southeastern U.S. in the times leading up to the Trail of Tears debacle. The Cherokees were settled, prosperous farmers and landowners. They were not hardscrabble dirt farmers and wanderers. The fact that they owned rich, valuable farmlands put them into the gunsights of Congress. Congress passed laws forcing all native Americans to be relocated to the Indian Nations, where they could be lumped together in an area of land that had little value to the whites. Heh, Heh, Heh. Until oil was discovered around the turn of the 20th century.

HEHEHE.. true.. oil made a difference, but only for a few (no sharing between tribes you know).. that is why the ones that can open casinos.... the rest just starve or drink themselves to death.

 

[StarrWulf]

Re: Cherokkee march the "Trail of Tears"

Ummm, Sounds like some anger management issues.

my father HATED the thought anyone would think he was an indian (better to be half black where he grew up). My grandfather, after my dad moved away, became an indian agent in arizona.... why is it whenever anyone vents an opinion that doesnt agree with the group, its always an anger management issue? the so called noble savage has done enough already..

 

[Scar]

Re: Cherokkee march the "Trail of Tears"

StarrWulf, you are so correct in the matter of hatred between the Creeks and Cherokees. I am of Cherokee blood and have done some research into this. It is my opinion that the Cherokees that were force marched were of the lower intellect and listened to John Ross who was only 1/8 Cherokee blood and even had trouble speaking their language. My maternal grandmother was full blood and her family was still in East Tennessee in the 1880's. As a child the locals would burn my grandmothers house down and they would move a little farther West. Their houses were burned 5 times. Once they crossed into Missouri the burning stopped. Our great Nazi president Andrew Jackson was the force behind removal of the native blood. It was a land grab of epic proportion. Great men like John Marshall, Henry Clay and Davie Crockett tried to stop the great Nazi but were unsuccessful. Crockett left the country because of this great injustice. My family the same as yours didn't claim the blood. After being burned so many times who would.

 

[GrayCloud]

Re: Cherokkee march the "Trail of Tears"

My Family has never denied our Indian Heritage and yes they were in the Trail of Tears.
Lower intellect, I think not. My family has a history of well above average intellect. My oldest son, was the youngest child ever given an IQ test by the state of Louisiana at the age of three. The test was conducted by LSU and his IQ was 135. My other son is also gifted and so are many of our family members.
You simply can't make an open statement, that a group of people are of low intelligence. It is an insult to do so and you sir should be ashamed of yourself for making such a statement.

 

[StarrWulf]

Re: Cherokkee march the "Trail of Tears"

My Family has never denied our Indian Heritage and yes they were in the Trail of Tears.

I am sure you didn't... your kind got all the good press. my research into the history showed me the cherokees were the shifty ones of the 5 civilized tribes. once jackson cut away the Seminoles he went to work on the rest.. the cherokees could be bought so they used them to push out the others. had your family stayed east of the Mississippi, your family history would have been different. guess the cherokees thought they were special since they got the government check and pushed everyone else out... you get no sympathy from me for being cherokee or your history. i don't deny what i am, like my father did, but i sure dint make it a point of pride. nor do i condemn the boogie white man for what happened. its just old history and water under the bridge. i could register, but i don't care to. it has as much importance to me as the Irish or German background. i always thought it was funny how the indians played games with the whites laughing about how anyone could own land , signing anything paper to get trinkets and then complaining about it later . or get upset about people being in "their" territory as if they owned the land ... sheesh. give it a rest.. there are plenty on both sides that were descent people who suffered because of idiots. you can tell no one has learned a thing.. look who is president let alone the past presidents that have been elected. the cherokees dished it out to all the other indians and then cryed foul when they got the same treatment. THAT IS HISTORY.. and as far as i am concerned, they got what they deserved. that is my last comment on the topic.. i have gotten too far off topic already....

 

[Cherokee_Kidd]

Re: Cherokkee march the "Trail of Tears"

I heard stories from my grandparents about what happened to members of my family back then and it wasn't pretty. None of my family has ever denied who or what we are because we are proud of who we are. Alot of bad things happened to alot of people not just us back in those days.

 

[Scar]

Re: Cherokkee march the "Trail of Tears"

GrayCloud, I am not ashamed of myself or what I said. Maybe I should rephrase what I said to read "Those who followed John Ross must have been of a lower intellect". That is not to say that all that were forced marched were of the lower intellect, some could have picked a bad place to hide out, while others may have had just plain old bad luck. It may have been that these higher IQ Cherokee thought that the US Constitution may stand up for them and it did when John Marshall ruled in their favor but the monkey wrench in the factor was their little understanding of Jackson. Jackson's response to Chief Justice Marshall's ruling was "Lets see you enforce it", and he moved the Cherokee.

Why did Jackson turn his back on the Cherokee? My research is in the attic of my house and I am not going to climb up there to get it just for the sake of responding to this post but I will give you what I can remember off the top of my head.

In the months leading up to the battle of New Orleans, Jackson was on a mission to round up or kill some renegade Creeks. His front line on finding the Creeks were his Cherokee scouts. These scouts led Jackson and his rag tag hillbilly squad into a place in southern Alabama called Cahootchie, spelling could be wrong. This was a place similar to "No Mans Land" in Louisiana where outlaws of all shapes, races and forms congregated to hide out. These Creeks were found to be living in a house made of sticks, in the story that I read there were more than 100 Creeks in the stick house when Jacksons men surrounded it. They ordered them out and the ones that came out were shot. The rest decided to take the more noble road and to not be the target of Jackson's marksmen. Under this stick house was the root cellar that contained the staples needed to survive, pumpkins, potatoes and the like. Jackson ordered his men to set fire to the stick house. When the fire burned down to coals, Jackson's men went in and started eating the potatoes and pumkins that had the grease of the burned bodies basting them in the flames. I would think that some ate the meat of the Creek bodies. From my reading of the story the Cherokee stayed back and said to themselves "And they call us savages" they didn't partake and went back home. In the next few days Jackson was ordered to run recon from Pensecola Florida to New Orleans because the British were going to invade. From my understanding Jackson and his men had intestinal tract problems and were in bad shape to fight at the Battle of New Orleans. My thought is that this was caused from the ingestion of the Creek remains. It is my thought and only so that the Cherokee didn't follow Jackson into New Orleans to help with the battle, crossing to the West side of the Mississippi River would have been like going to the land of the dark or hell in their thought. I feel that Jackson held this against them.

 

[GrayCloud]

Re: Cherokkee march the "Trail of Tears"

Jackson was just plain no good. You can read some of my posts from past years and see this is not a new revelation. He was a cold blooded murderer and hater. Poor sorry lowlife of an excuse for a man and a poor excuse for a president. But he still would have to look way down to see obama.

 

[Scar]

Re: Cherokkee march the "Trail of Tears"

GrayCloud, you may be right when it comes to Obama but I will not get caught up in present day politics because I don't know what they know. The history may tell the tale but do we have time as a nation to wait for that story to be told. I think that we, as a nation are on the brink of a major change, as the president promised. Will the change be for the better of the USA? I doubt it.

 

[Dave44]

Re: Cherokkee march the "Trail of Tears"

GrayCloud I belive yiu are right about Jackson.

About 6 years ago I found a token that said Andrew Jackson, Hero of New Orleans. I asked many folks about it but did not get that many answers so I started looking into him.
I believe he was a petty man, his marriage is questionable, and I think that he did not care a wit about what was good for the country as long as he got his way. The first depression and many bad policies and presidential overreach set a bad tone for this country.

 

[StarrWulf]

Re: Cherokkee march the "Trail of Tears"

I believe he was a petty man, his marriage is questionable, and I think that he did not care a wit about what was good for the country as long as he got his way. The first depression and many bad policies and presidential overreach set a bad tone for this country.

yes, he was definitely uncouth, and unlike some in the government, he believed this country should never have let the indians retain their sovereignty (which made the indians the target of many government programs.. without their sovereignty, the trail of tears for anyone would not have been possible).. but all of his programs were not bad. He was smart enough to get rid of the central bank. He believed (rightly in my opinion) no nation retain their sovereignty if it has to bow to a private bank owned by foreign interests... that is why we have the problems we have today with the "federal" reserve.. a private bank owned by foreign investors, unaccountable to this government and the cause of the great depression.
What the private banks have done to this country is a history lesson in itself ! ! ! Did you know the crash of 29 was precipitated by the foreign banks pulling their money out of this country.. and by the time the depression was over, there was less than 25% of the money in circulation compaired to what was available in 1928 ! ! ! (believe it or not, I was taught this in high school before the standards went down and the NTA and the US DOE got control of everything)
The depressions and recessions this country has experienced has always been due to private banks manipulation of the money supply.

 

[AU24K]

Re: Cherokkee march the "Trail of Tears"

My take on the Cherokee People's "Trail of Tears" is that Jackson betrayed his friends, gold was found in North Georgia and the Government was keen on "takeover." (Hmmmm....sound familiar?)

"The Indians are savages! They do not deserve the land! We'll "relocate" them and profit from their loss!"
"Let's have a land lottery!"

I am ashamed to be a possible descendant of those who implemented this policy.
(However, Maternally, I'm related to Daniel Boone, a Friend to all People, and Paternally, well, that doesn't happen until at least 100 years later and comes from Germany...)

My Best Wishes to all of the TRUE AMERICANS!
Your beliefs are in my daily life.

Scott