Chase got me really good

[thing]

I have/had an overdraft of $1000 I can access through the ATM at chase, so what i usually do is take 1000 from the atm buy 2 boxes from wells fargo then dump the rejects back on chase, as long as I get the money back same day I am not charged any fees.

Unfortunately, my account was subject of a periodic review and this behavior was deemed to risky by chase so they just shut down my account. That normally wouldn't hurt too much but I just put 1400 in the account to pay some other bills, and now chase I saying that they will mail me a check for the funds remaining in the account in 4 weeks, now that doesn't seem fair and a little vengeful.

Does anyone here have any experience with this kind of event, I doubt I am the first person here this has happoned to.
Any advice would be welcomed
PS this really put a damper on my hunting activities, chase is so common in los angeles and it has the best weekend hours.
I got black listed from bofa for abusing their keep the change promotion by buying 1c stamps 1c at a time to the tune of 3000 over 2 years(i don't feel bad about that at all, but the chase thing that really hurts)

 

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[palidin20603]

To be honest, I don't think what he did with Chase was that big a deal. I thought he was doing it several times a week, but 3-4 times a month? Not a big deal, with respect to CRH'ing. Doesn't surprise me that Chase cut him off, but I don't think it's that detrimental to the hobby.

just my 2 cents...

Starting an account with a bank just to borrow money at no interest to buy coins then give those coins to said bank to ship off isn't detrimental?

 

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[Yinzi50]

What you did violates the fundamental human value: Reciprocity - mutual exchange of commercial or other privileges. You are the one that our society trying to avoid or fend off. Avoid to marry to, screening out as future employee, avoid to keep as customer, etc.

But I am very impressed with your way of thinking out of box. If you can channel your energy to beat non-human system, such as virus, termites, cancer, etc, you will be greatly reward with money, respect, and joy. One of my friends started a pharmaceutical company looking for treatment for cancer four years ago, now he is more than 10 millions rich. He is well respected by our society and he is having a ball.

 

[SFBayArea]

What you did violates the fundamental human value: Reciprocity - mutual exchange of commercial or other privileges. You are the one that our society trying to avoid or fend off. Avoid to marry to, screen so not to hire as employee, avoid to keep as customer, etc.

But I am very impressed with your way of thinking out of box. If you can channel your energy to beat non-human system, such as virus, termites, cancer, etc, you will be greatly reward with money, respect, and joy. One of my friends started a pharmaceutical company looking for treatment for cancer four years ago, now he is more 10 millions rich. He is well respected by our society and he is have a ball.

I think fundamentally as a society, people always think short term. They always think of maxing something out or anything for the quick buck. In reality, it's better to plan for the long run and the future. Those work out better. That is problem. And for some reason, people still cannot get away from thinking short term.

As far as the medical field. Believe me there are plenty of doctors, pharmaceuticals, and insurance companies all placing money over the health of society as a whole. Personally they don't care about other people's health unless they can make fast money or it's themselves or own family members that are ill. Some prefer that people die rather than go all out to help them survive. Believe me, there are many substances out there worth researching for treatment of cancers. But because there's no money in it since they are herbal or not hard to obtain or it's detrimental to other money making drugs in the pipeline, they do not care about them. After all a cheap and safe available treatment for illness would deal a big blow to business as a whole if ever approved by FDA. My aunt had some cysts years ago where a doctor at Stanford told her to have surgery. Because she is afraid of surgery from an operation she had years prior, she took some herbal remedy and those cysts disappeared over time. That same doctor was shocked but I suppose it's not worth investigating. I think the doctor asked to read the bottle of stuff my aunt took and that was it. I'm not here to sell anything because I don't even know what that stuff was but it is a true story. There are many stories of treatments of illnesses that came about because one doctor fought tooth and nail to get it through. The doctor that discover H. Pylori bacteria had to inject it into himself to prove it because his colleagues did not want to believe it.

Leaves me to think, there are treatments out there and potential cures for Cancer, HIV, Parkinson's, or Alzheimer's or whatever yet I doubt the medical field at large wants to have a true cure for anything significant. They just want to keep the status quo and have people buy expensive new drugs that keep them alive longer. Milking the system for all its worth. Hey, forget the cure, you're still alive (although barely) and we're making big bucks. HaHa. With big money involved, we're basically just pawns in the game. Yeah they got their lobbyists just like big banks have lobbyists. Politicians cave in to them because now donations matter and are now unlimited. All the while draining you, me, or Uncle Sam for Medicare dollars. Kinda of like the OP milking BoA and while big Pharma is milking us. You know if they found a cure for Alzheimer's, lots of people in retirement homes would lose their jobs. We don't want that do we? LOL

Don't get me wrong. I'm for capitalism but I'm not for businesses that make money to the detriment of the majority of the society as a whole. When you guys come down with incurable cancer and are told to undertake hospice, let me know. I can point you in the right direction for something that can help. I don't want anything in return. Only that if given a second chance, people change their lives around and do things in their lives to benefit society rather than themselves. You can call me a liberal for saying that last part. LOL

 

[cooper36]

go to the top of the food chain, tell them you are going to charge them 35.00 in NFS fees a day and get a lawyer.Good Luck.
coop

 

[thing]

As far as being cut off from bofa, there are lots of other banks out there, but i got 3000 out of it. I consider myself a winner in that respect. And isn't this whole hobby an abuse of the banks? I mean going to one bank buying 3000 in half dollars sorting them and droping them on another, and then repeating this cycle again and again. The banks never could have expected this, plus costs banks money to order and ship the boxes, I would not consider my actions with a 12 hour overdraft to be as bad for the banks as the cost of ordering boxes.

 

[SFBayArea]

As far as being cut off from bofa, there are lots of other banks out there, but i got 3000 out of it. I consider myself a winner in that respect. And isn't this whole hobby an abuse of the banks? I mean going to one bank buying 3000 in half dollars sorting them and droping them on another, and then repeating this cycle again and again. The banks never could have expected this, plus costs banks money to order and ship the boxes, I would not consider my actions with a 12 hour overdraft to be as bad for the banks as the cost of ordering boxes.

Well isn't the use of coin in general then a waste? Why do merchants take in a bunch of coin and send it to banks and then order coins? Isn't that a waste? I've seen merchants like Jack in a Box bring a bunch of unsorted coins in and then they ask for coins. Didn't seem like they had the energy to sort them and reuse them. Bottom line is that coins are there to be used and they are always cycled. Many businesses will order and dump. We're just getting one type mostly. Isn't CRHing also a business? Without CRHers, halves will just sit around forever like those golden colored dollars that the FED has to pay money to store. The last users of halves were the casinos and they stopped. Of course if it was up to banks, they would never want to deal with cash to begin with. Did you know that banks take in a ton of money but still order? Yeah.. they'll take in customer money, send it out and order new money. That happens a lot with currency. Seems like a waste but that's normal for a bank. I asked why they don't recycle and one teller just tells me that's just the way it is. Like I said, I would not want to lose BoA over 3K. I've gained more than that over the years plus services using them. Just seemed like short sighted thinking to me.

 

[palidin20603]

As far as being cut off from bofa, there are lots of other banks out there, but i got 3000 out of it. I consider myself a winner in that respect. And isn't this whole hobby an abuse of the banks? I mean going to one bank buying 3000 in half dollars sorting them and droping them on another, and then repeating this cycle again and again. The banks never could have expected this, plus costs banks money to order and ship the boxes, I would not consider my actions with a 12 hour overdraft to be as bad for the banks as the cost of ordering boxes.

The difference is you tricked their system into lending you money and then dumped coins on them to satisfy the overdraft. For CRH the bank employees voulntarily take coin from us and supply coin to us for their own potential gain. Not to mention CRHers use their own money. I can not believe you continue to rationalize your behavior. If something is available, is it always for the taking?

 

[ivan salis]

"overdraft' protection is for an "accidental " once in bluemoon "mistake' -- you were knowingly abusing it by knowingly taking out funds you "knew" you did not have on hand , in effect you were forcing the bank to make a "interest free" 24 hour loan to you , so that you could use their money to fund your coin rolling hobby and yeild all the found silver "profiets" for yourself at no cost to you and without tying up your own personal funds in the process --- ( warning --legally speaking its a form of "fraud" to knowing and repeatedly "overdraft' on purpose knowing full well you did not have the funds to cover it -- being you had a "pattern of abuse' that could be easily proven by bank records --you are very lucky that the law was not called in ) -- clearly the record of your "overdrafts" would easily show that that they were not made by accident mind you, but on purpose * you "meant" to do it -- thus abusing the oh we will cover you if you make a "mistake" and accidently overdraft once in a great while --provided you fix it within your account in 24 hours or less. offered by the bank for folks that do "honestly" accidently overdraft by mistake .

frankly your lucky that all they did was to "dump your account" it could have been much worse , indeed.

theif by fraud * - legally speaking its , similar to writing a "bogus check" knowing you do not have the funds to cover it in the bank. --in the old days folks knowing it would take 3 days at the minimum for a check to "clear" would leave the money in a "interest drawing account" for 2 days and then trasfer the cash at the close of bussiness on day 2 --by day 3 the money would be in the bank when the check "processed'

 

[ArkieBassMan]

I have/had an overdraft of $1000 I can access through the ATM at chase, so what i usually do is take 1000 from the atm buy 2 boxes from wells fargo then dump the rejects back on chase, as long as I get the money back same day I am not charged any fees.

Unfortunately, my account was subject of a periodic review and this behavior was deemed to risky by chase so they just shut down my account. That normally wouldn't hurt too much but I just put 1400 in the account to pay some other bills, and now chase I saying that they will mail me a check for the funds remaining in the account in 4 weeks, now that doesn't seem fair and a little vengeful.

Does anyone here have any experience with this kind of event, I doubt I am the first person here this has happoned to.
Any advice would be welcomed
PS this really put a damper on my hunting activities, chase is so common in los angeles and it has the best weekend hours.
I got black listed from bofa for abusing their keep the change promotion by buying 1c stamps 1c at a time to the tune of 3000 over 2 years(i don't feel bad about that at all, but the chase thing that really hurts)

I can't blame Chase for closing your account. You had it coming. You abused the overdraft "privilege" and they got tired of it. (I put privilege in quotes as they extend this "courtesy" not to help you in any way, but rather in the hopes that you'll overdraft your account by a few bucks occasionally and they can slap you with a $35+ overdraft fee everytime you do it. They want you to overdraft your account.) The reason they "froze" your account for a few weeks is to cover any outstanding checks you might have written. I don't blame them for that either. If the freezing of your $1400 causes you to be late on some payment(s), you have no one to blame but yourself.

On the other hand, technically I don't see where you did anything wrong. I do not in any way condone what you did, but you violated no laws. They extended a $1000 overdraft privilege to you, and you used it often - albeit in a different way in which they intended - and you paid the money back. Was it immoral? Absolutely! However, I would argue that the whole overdraft "privilege" is immoral to begin with. You used their immoral system against them immorally for awhile, so to speak. I personally have no problem with it, as it doesn't effect me whatsoever. I wouldn't do it, but what you do is no business of mine - other than you did ask for opinions on a public forum of which I am a member.

Now the "Keep the Change" program is different. In this sitiuation, the bank was honestly doing you a favor. They were just giving you free money without trying to con you into a situation in which they could slap some ridiculously priced fee on you. However, again you just manipulated the system without technically breaking the rules. Its partly BoA's fault for not setting some sort of limit, but I cannot blame them for black-listing you and I'm surprised you were able to get away with it ~3000 times before they did. That would be an average of nearly 5 times a day, 6 days a week, without missing a day for 2 years. Its amazing they let you do that for so long.

Now with all of that said, I don't see in any way that any of your actions effect the CRH community at all - negatively or otherwise. What you happened to do with your overdraft money is irrelevant IMO. That would be like finding out that someone convicted of murder happened to enjoy fishing in his spare time, and that somehow makes all fishermen look bad. I just don't see it.

 

[n8dagr8345]

I am not a law expert, but I do think that a clever prosecutor could pull this under the check kiting penal code-
Check out 18 USC § 1344

Whoever knowingly executes, or attempts to execute, a scheme or artifice—
(1) to defraud a financial institution; or
(2) to obtain any of the moneys, funds, credits, assets, securities, or other property owned by, or under the custody or control of, a financial institution, by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises;
shall be fined not more than $1,000,000 or imprisoned not more than 30 years, or both.

Seems like it may fall under 2. That is just my 2 cents...
N8

 

[namster]

^ No, because the bank willingly transferred or gave the money, per the promotion. Where necessary, it was replaced. Money was not stolen.

You fellas think this dude was the only person on the planet doing these things?

Here is some food for thought. How much are y'all making on the money in your standard savings account? Since "using someones money for free" was brought up...

 

[BillyOceansEleven]

I don't think OP did anything wrong from an ethical/legal standpoint. He just exploited the system using the rules they created, and I must say I am impressed that he was able to take BofA for $3k through KTC. Considering you were limited to $250 under the 100% match on each account, that means he probably opened 12 savings accounts over the course of 2 years to pull this off.

Anyway, I do think it was a bit foolish for OP to think this wasn't going to end badly. Overdrafting an account is a major risk factor the bank reviews to guard against people leaving accounts negative where the bank takes a loss on the overdrawn balance. Even though OP worked under the rules Chase set, the behavior had to make Chase nervous that he would overdraft the account and never pay it back at some point. It is similar to maxing out your credit card - just because the bank gives you a $30k credit limit doesn't mean they won't shut you down if you repeatedly max it out because the behavior is consistent with someone would will ultimately not be able to keep up and default.

 

[Bigheed]

Banks look for suspicious behavior, especially with new accounts (a new account can be 1-2 years young), not sure how long you have had a Chase account but just pointing that out.

That being said, the banks offer these perks to attract potential customers, they'll give a little in the hopes that they can make money off them or just gain the lending power of their deposits.

The bank for better or worse also has the right (you sign everytime you open an account, not sure about CU's) to "end their relationship" with you at any time for any reason, just as you have the same right, it is an "at will" relationship.

When you repeatedly do things that cost the bank more money than they anticipate (such as the BofA change), or repeatedly put the bank in a "risky position" (overdrawing your account at Chase, even though it is through their own system) , they will eventually get wind of it in the operating losses department and evaluate your account. At which point you will either get the thumbs up or thumbs down....in your case Caesar has judged against you twice.

The most important thing to remember now is that they are not just closing your account, they are ending their relationship with you FOREVER as a high risk customer.

Want a car loan in the future? Home loan? Credit Card? If its <insert name here card> sponsored by Chase or BofA you're probably going to get declined, even with A+ credit.

Be careful in how you "play the game" my friend, while you win the short term, you are getting the squeeze in the long run. You've lost the 2 biggest banks in SoCal .... Even though you aren't doing anything illegal I would re-evaluate your strategies.

Regards,
Bigheed

 

[n8dagr8345]

I am not saying that the keep the change was illegal- nor am I saying the overdrawing was... however, it sounds very close to check kiting(which is not very common anymore)... My statute was related to the check kiting and overdrawing of his account to float the money elsewhere....

 

[Mzjavert]

One more comment: overdraft is an oops not a process.

I hate with a passion to say this, but I have to agree with Chase here.

 

[snakeyes]

yeah I fell really bad for the poor banks their rules. They are in business to take as much of your money as they can, about time they have to swallow some of their own meds

 

[cooper36]

I am on really good terms with all the tellers at my 5 local chases, this action occurred at high management.
Honestly I wouldn't think this would bother anyone here, seems like I have read alot of stories about talking to managers about tellers not giving up silver in their trays, dumping on rude branches and opening then closing accounts.
Also how would my use of overdraft mess things up for any one at this hobby, unless they are doing the exact same thing.

so true.

 

[FormerTeller]

I am not saying that the keep the change was illegal- nor am I saying the overdrawing was... however, it sounds very close to check kiting(which is not very common anymore)... My statute was related to the check kiting and overdrawing of his account to float the money elsewhere....

A: Check kiting is illegal, and goes against the terms of services for most if not all banks.
B: Overdrafts, and overdraft protection, is not illegal. I feel confident that what Thing did with respect to overdrafts was indeed within their terms of service, as was their cutting him off - all contained within the legal framework of the documents he signed when he opened the account. I'll give you odds on this...

Basically, they gave him a privilege, and he abused it, to the point that they took all of his privileges away. It doesn't make him a particularly desirable bank customer, but it is in no way illegal.

 

[SFBayArea]

I am not saying that the keep the change was illegal- nor am I saying the overdrawing was... however, it sounds very close to check kiting(which is not very common anymore)... My statute was related to the check kiting and overdrawing of his account to float the money elsewhere....

A: Check kiting is illegal, and goes against the terms of services for most if not all banks.
B: Overdrafts, and overdraft protection, is not illegal. I feel confident that what Thing did with respect to overdrafts was indeed within their terms of service, as was their cutting him off - all contained within the legal framework of the documents he signed when he opened the account. I'll give you odds on this...

Basically, they gave him a privilege, and he abused it, to the point that they took all of his privileges away. It doesn't make him a particularly desirable bank customer, but it is in no way illegal.

Seems like a good summation by a former teller. LOL. Basically abused a privilege. I'm suprised that the OP didn't do the credit card airline miles thing with those yellow new dollars by the mint. That's another one where it wasn't illegal but it was definitely an abused loophole.

Yeah, there's a lot of things out there that we can do for a short term gain. Some of us just don't do it because we don't believe in abusing the system. Yeah, there's some girl in Michigan that won the lotto and still took food stamp payments from the government. Some people are on welfare and lazy as hell. Some have kids on purpose to collect government checks. Those programs were designed to help folks get on their feet not for abuse. Hope the OP gets the drift. Yeah, and those Feebay sellers selling rolls of unsearched halves. All of us can do it but we just decide not to because it's not the moral thing to do. I'm not interested in making money off other people's ignorance. That's enough preaching from me for the day. LOL

 

[47thelement]

Thank you people.

We have had a very lively discussion on this topic and nobody seems to have gotten upset or even remotely mad at another member. Well if they did they did so using the proper channels. It's nice to see our little forum getting along again even when there doesn't seem be a ton of silver to be found.

We now return to our regularly scheduled discussion