Charlie Miller...

[cw0909]

Cubfan64, tried to fix for us with the old tired eyes

 

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[PotBelly Jim]

Bear with me a bit please, I'm going to try to recount a little information that Garry Cundiff and Larry Hannah found when trying to locate a Charlie Miller awhile back when his name came up on another forum. Nobody is saying this is the right person, but it does fit the time frame that Lynda mentioned about Travis thinking Charlie was in his 70's in 1958. They were also basing this on something Tom Kollenborn mentioned on another forum in 2010...



Here is an obituary from the Scottsdale Daily Progress, Dec 19, 1973... this would have him being born in 1889 and being 69/70 in 1958.

View attachment 1614335

Note the location of the residence being close to Tom Kollenborn's remembered location.

I can't find the reference, but I thought Lynda or Ryan stated that Charlie Miller had an injury or something along those lines. This particular Charles W MIller was in the newspaper for a train accident in May, 1919... The newspaper copy is light but hopefully you can read it (El Paso Herald, May 1, 1919)

View attachment 1614337

I got excited at one point when I saw that he and his wife had a son named Charles Fain Wilson in 1916. I got it in my head that the obituary for that son had a date of death in 2000, so I thought perhaps there was a Charles Miller Jr. that was also known by Al Reser, but I had a brain fart and his death was actually in 1970 (3 years before his father's) so that was my mistake.

Documented places of residence during his life include Phoenix, Tempe, Chandler, Ajo and Scottsdale.

Clearly if this happens to be the Charlie Miller that Travis knew, it's not the same person that Al Reser knew as Charlie Miller. One little wrinkle to all of this that popped into my head the other day...

There are multiple instances where Charlie Miller is associated with Bill Hidden - especially by Jim Hatt - here is one of the posts as an example...

View attachment 1614365

I posted a newspaper article the other day about a Bill Hidden involved in searching for riches in the Superstitions... an interesting tidbit I found in the Maricopa County Recorder's archives (and I believe Hal Croves located this same information a couple years ago) is as follows...

View attachment 1614366

Note that William Hidden (and I haven't done enough to know whether it's the same Bill Hidden from the newspaper clipping) goes by the name William Ryan for "security purposes." Here we have a person who apparently uses alternate names.

I'm just tossing this out there, but what if Bill Hidden knew the Charlie Miller that Travis knew - so he knew about the stone maps, etc... and after Charlie passed away, he used his name now and then and perhaps that's the person Al Reser knew as Charlie Miller?

Ok all of this is completely conjecture on my part with A LOT of assumptions, guesses and other assorted possible BS thrown in, but perhaps the names and some of the information above can prompt other folks to dig a little deeper. If the person Al Reser knew who lived near him was actually someone other than Charlie Miller - perhaps someone like William Hidden who went by other names, it's probably going to be impossible to track him, but it might be worth a shot to try to find out where William Hidden lived and when he died?

I'm honestly hoping someone like AZDave who has sources in AJ might be able to get some more information on Charlie Miller and/or Bill Hidden. Anyways, it's a place to start and might lead somewhere interesting - on the other hand it may wind up being a complete dead end.

Paul, I'm pretty sure you have our guy...I wanted to post this for Lynda as she mentioned he would have been prime for WWI service:

View attachment 1614409

I did see he had one son and one daughter and their names from the census, but hadn't tracked them down yet...also, the location in PHX given by Tom K. isn't just close to the obit address, it's actually spot on...there's apartments there now...it also fits with what Carrol said about where Charlie Miller lived...I think you nailed this one...

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Also for Lynda, here's Charlie Miller's parents on the 1900 Maricopa Co. census...not shown in the pic: His father was a "Station Keeper" and his people were from Texas...

View attachment 1614410

 

[somehiker]

Anyone looking into Rhodes Wilson ?

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Anyone looking into Rhodes Wilson ?

Yup...Lynda already had the gent nailed down...he's generally a PHX resident for years and years...I sucked up a bunch of records on him just for GP...anything specific you looking for?

 

[somehiker]

Just that it's a name I've never seen before, in all the different LDM stories and other Sups related research.
Was he ever involved with other locals and LDM hunter/celebrities ?

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Just that it's a name I've never seen before, in all the different LDM stories and other Sups related research.
Was he ever involved with other locals and LDM hunter/celebrities ?

Not that I can tell just looking through public records...maybe someone else will know how he fits into the Dutch Hunter community...

The guy that "worries" me is Bill Hidden...don't like what I'm finding...Gotta just leave it at that for now as I may be jumping to conclusions...

 

[Cubfan64]

I just wanted to remind everyone that I'M just the person relaying information here - the work that went behind this was done by Garry Cundiff and Larry Hannah and the Bill Hidden "alias" possibility is something Hal Croves came across at one point. Don't give me credit for doing anything more than passing along other people's work .

I'm so swamped IRL right now that I just can't devote time to doing all the digging that needs to be done to go any further. It sounds like Jim is doing the heavy lifting right now so I hope he has some luck and thank him for spending the time and energy.

I'm really curious what if anything we can discover about Bill Hidden - the fact that Al Reser knew someone named Charlie Miller who was associated with the stone map story really makes me wonder how all this fits together. I like Wayne's question about Rhodes Wilson too - it's not impossible, but it is a little weird that until Ryan and Lynda shared his name, I don't think I had ever heard it mentioned before. Not that there haven't been plenty of prospectors and treasure hunters who's names we don't know but being so close to the Stone Map story it's just surprising that his name never made it out into the public. I'd like to know more about him as well.

Carry on and I look forward to seeing what comes up

 

[deducer]

I just wanted to remind everyone that I'M just the person relaying information here - the work that went behind this was done by Garry Cundiff and Larry Hannah and the Bill Hidden "alias" possibility is something Hal Croves came across at one point. Don't give me credit for doing anything more than passing along other people's work .

I'm so swamped IRL right now that I just can't devote time to doing all the digging that needs to be done to go any further. It sounds like Jim is doing the heavy lifting right now so I hope he has some luck and thank him for spending the time and energy.

I'm really curious what if anything we can discover about Bill Hidden - the fact that Al Reser knew someone named Charlie Miller who was associated with the stone map story really makes me wonder how all this fits together. I like Wayne's question about Rhodes Wilson too - it's not impossible, but it is a little weird that until Ryan and Lynda shared his name, I don't think I had ever heard it mentioned before. Not that there haven't been plenty of prospectors and treasure hunters who's names we don't know but being so close to the Stone Map story it's just surprising that his name never made it out into the public. I'd like to know more about him as well.

Carry on and I look forward to seeing what comes up

If you think it's confusing enough already, the name of the person who found the Latin Heart is Bill Alexander. How's that for yet another monkey wrench?

 

[cw0909]

Anyone looking into Rhodes Wilson ?

i think i found him, on family search, a relative put up his history
only available if your a member. waiting to hear from her if i or
she will share the info, an excerpt from one of the story posts

He also was convinced he could find the Lost Dutchman gold mine in the Superstition Mountains but of course had no luck. He and Grandma were married over 60 years.

 

[cw0909]

ok i heard back, she wants to know what info i want or her to share
i sent here some links about the stones, and asked if rhodes wilson
had any papers on the stones during his search for the mine, also
told her i understand its a lot of info about the stones to take in
so ill wait and see

 

[Old]

Good work guys.

I'm very happy to see you all pick up the torch and further the search. There is a lot to be said for cooperation and team work. The world could use a lot more of it.

 

[PotBelly Jim]

I just wanted to remind everyone that I'M just the person relaying information here - the work that went behind this was done by Garry Cundiff and Larry Hannah and the Bill Hidden "alias" possibility is something Hal Croves came across at one point. Don't give me credit for doing anything more than passing along other people's work .

I'm so swamped IRL right now that I just can't devote time to doing all the digging that needs to be done to go any further. It sounds like Jim is doing the heavy lifting right now so I hope he has some luck and thank him for spending the time and energy.

I'm really curious what if anything we can discover about Bill Hidden - the fact that Al Reser knew someone named Charlie Miller who was associated with the stone map story really makes me wonder how all this fits together. I like Wayne's question about Rhodes Wilson too - it's not impossible, but it is a little weird that until Ryan and Lynda shared his name, I don't think I had ever heard it mentioned before. Not that there haven't been plenty of prospectors and treasure hunters who's names we don't know but being so close to the Stone Map story it's just surprising that his name never made it out into the public. I'd like to know more about him as well.

Carry on and I look forward to seeing what comes up

Same here, Paul...not doing any heavy lifting...all I had done was vacuumed up a bunch of records, your post with the obit saved me a lot of work so thanks...lotsa Charlie Millers out there, more than I'd imagined...didn't realize Garry and Larry had already tracked all that stuff down...

 

[PotBelly Jim]

Not that I can tell just looking through public records...maybe someone else will know how he fits into the Dutch Hunter community...

The guy that "worries" me is Bill Hidden...don't like what I'm finding...Gotta just leave it at that for now as I may be jumping to conclusions...

Would like to update what I said about Bill Hidden in my previous post...after further research it appears (to me, at least) that his use of aliases was nothing more than an attempt to keep his identity/family/home safe from crazies in the event he found the LDM...also useful if one of the various rabid gold-seekers that used to infest the area decided they wanted to pay him a visit late at night to see what info he had hidden in his home...kinda like what people do after they win the lottery, they try to put distance between themselves, their family, and public records...I have reason to believe that his various mining partners and close friends knew exactly who he was and why he used different names.

 

[cw0909]

heard back, have some info census records,ect. and a Tumlinson connect
ill start a new thread ,.....William Rhodes Wilson.... maybe tommorow
when i have a little more time
all i have for the Tumlinson connect is the relative said found his name
mentioned at the LDM Searchers family tree at ancestry.com
ive not looked into that,and no link to it, i guess as i asked and thats all i got

 

[coazon de oro]

One other thing about this Charlie Miller, besides coming up with more stone maps to sell to Travis after he saw the PSM's that Travis found, coming up with Adolf Ruth's maps, and the rifle that killed him, all without any proof of being real. He also seems to be the one responsible for the Latin Heart. I have always said that the man who found, and later broke the Latin Heart was the man that made it. With all the aliases, it seems that the Latin Heart was also Charlie Millers creation.

Homar

 

[markmar]

Hi Homar

How would you explain the similarities of the words which exist on both Latin stone heart map and Cursum Perficio map ?
And , from what I remember Miller didn't try to sell to Travis the Latin stone heart , nor Travis was ever aware about it .

 

[coazon de oro]

Hi Homar

How would you explain the similarities of the words which exist on both Latin stone heart map and Cursum Perficio map ?
And , from what I remember Miller didn't try to sell to Travis the Latin stone heart , nor Travis was ever aware about it .

Howdy Marius,

the similarities may be because it comes from the same man, or simply a copycat.

If Miller profited from Travis, he may have been trying to profit from others.

Homar

 

[markmar]

Howdy Marius,

the similarities may be because it comes from the same man, or simply a copycat.

If Miller profited from Travis, he may have been trying to profit from others.

Homar

Also Miller had to know the exact dimension and thickness of the Trail stone heart and the depth of the upper stone trail heart's cavity, to make the Latin stone heart at the same dimension and to calculate the thickness of the Latin heart , which together with the Trail stone heart to fill the cavity no more that the tablet's surface level .
IMO very difficult to proceed if Miller didn't has the PSM at his disposition .

 

[sgtfda]

Miller was known for tall tales. Not saying he was the biggest liar in the mountain. A friend knew him well. So anything Miller take it with a grain of salt.