cebacth Kpicpeina,need help with this coin

[downindixie]

I purchased this coin in a lot of Roman coins and haven't been able to id it because of the reverse.The image and writing is incuse on the coin rather than raised.It is 5.7 grams and 20 mm in diameter.I can't read the lettering on back other than possible G U Y P under and to right of shoulder on reverse.The front is very readable=CE BACTH KPICPEINA.Anyone can help ID this coin I would appreciate.

 

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[laralucine]

can't read the writing myself, but given the alphabet, looks like it could be Greek? I think it says "Queen Christina" (Sweden 1626-1689), evidently she converted from Lutheran to Catholic and moved to Rome. Here's a link, but if you google her, you get lots of hits:http://www-conference.slu.se/christ...RISTINA.pdf#search=""queen christina", greek"

Nice coin! good luck learning more,
Lara

 

[downindixie]

Most of the evidence I've found points to a much earlier time,say around 300 A.D.

 

[lordmarcovan]

Yes, it's definitely an ancient coin, not something from Queen Christina of Sweden's era. And it does look Roman Imperial, though I suppose Greek or Ptolemaic Egyptian ain't out of the question, either (I can't make enough of the lettering out in the pictures to even tell what alphabet it is.) Coins are my thing, but unfortunately, I'm a bit weak with ancients, and my Sear books are not with me. Try Wildwinds.com or a similar site on ancient coins.

http://wildwinds.com/coins/index.html

If the portrait is incuse on one side, you might have a brockage, which is really cool!

http://forumancientcoins.com/Articles/brockage/

Were I to guess, I would say that the portrait on your coin looks a lot like Faustina the Younger. Maybe your coin is from one of the Faustinas (Roman empresses of the Second century). I think they produced some colonial issues with inscriptions in Greek, too.

Try browsing through this...

http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/ric/faustina_II/t.html

 

[Bavaria Mike]

Looks like a one sided coin with no reverse, reverse looks like a mirror of the obverse. HH, Mike

 

[lordmarcovan]

Looks like a one sided coin with no reverse, reverse looks like a mirror of the obverse. HH, Mike

That would be a bracteate. But bracteates were very thin, usually silver, and mostly later (medieval). Roman and other bronze coins of this period were usally struck on pretty thick planchets.

I am certain it is an ancient bronze coin, and it really does look like it might be a brockage. That would be really neat if it were. Brockages on modern coins command premiums as mint errors, and I am sure it would command a premium with an ancient coin like this, as well, but perhaps not as big a premium, since minting methods and standards were more primitive then, and therefore "errors" like brockages, clipped planchets, and multiple strikes got into circulation a little more often, probably. Still, brockages are pretty scarce. For this to have been a brockage, the mirror-image, incuse portrait would have to be absolutely the same as the one on the other side (though reversed, of course).

 

[lordmarcovan]

I will send a link to this thread to Josh Moran of Civitas Galleries, a fellow numismatist from the Collectors Universe site, and an expert on ancients.

 

[Michelle]

Forgive me if I have missed something but this coin is here http://www.vcoins.com/ancient/ancientcoinart/store/viewItem.asp?idProduct=1078&large=0

 

[Michelle]

However this coin may be counterfeit.....incuse?

 

[downindixie]

The CE is underneath(6 position on clock) the shoulder and then Bacth(7-11 position) the bust faces to the right on the obverse and to the left on reverse.It does appear that the image on the reverse is mirrored of the obverse.I can find a couple of coins(on wildwinds) that have Cebacth first,but none with the CE underneath her bust.Also the second P in her name is the greek P that looks like 2 TT's to close together.I purchased this coin in a lot of coins,but then again I guess counterfiets can show up anywhere,I hope this coins isn't a fake!Thanks for all the imput!

 

[Michelle]

The 2 TT are letters of the alphabet (greek) I believe..Could it be the pie sign? http://www.snible.org/coins/alphabet.html

 

[Michelle]

The CE is underneath(6 position on clock) the shoulder and then Bacth(7-11 position) the bust faces to the right on the obverse and to the left on reverse.It does appear that the image on the reverse is mirrored of the obverse.I can find a couple of coins(on wildwinds) that have Cebacth first,but none with the CE underneath her bust.Also the second P in her name is the greek P that looks like 2 TT's to close together.I purchased this coin in a lot of coins,but then again I guess counterfiets can show up anywhere,I hope this coins isn't a fake!Thanks for all the imput!

Oh please Im not saying they are....sorry, I was only saying they could be...I dont know....they could be worth lots of $$$ even if they were probably.... We are still looking....Hang on!

 

[Michelle]

http://search.freefind.com/find.html?id=8253575&pageid=r&mode=ALL&query=KPICPEINA+

 

[lordmarcovan]

Josh from Civitas Galleries provided me some information on your coin.

I was right on one count (it is indeed a brockage), but wrong on another (it isn't Faustina). The brockage error makes it rather scarce. Here, I'll quote his post from the Collectors Universe site for you. You may read it by clicking the link below. (Collectors Universe is primarily a coin site but we have a small Metal Detecting Forum over there, too- it is where I spend most of my webtime).

Josh Moran, aka "Civitas":

"It is in fact a brockage.

It appears to be a Roman Provincial coin minted in the name of Crispina, the wife of Commodus (c. 177-192).

Unfortunately, because it is a brockage, it's not possible to tell exactly what province the coin came from since the ethnic describing the city/province is on the reverse and has been obliterated by the brockage strike. On the plus side, I haven't seen many (if any) provincials with a brockage strike, so it's kind of scarce and interesting in that respect."


http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=6&threadid=543601&STARTPAGE=1

If you are interested in selling the coin, perhaps Josh would be interested, as a dealer in such material. Or he could point you in the right direction, anyway. Congratulations on a neat find!

(By the way, for the pop-culture tie-in, if you ever saw the movie "Gladiator", I believe the villian portrayed in the movie was Commodus. It's been so long since I saw the movie, I can't remember if Crispina is a character in it or not.)

So now we know "KPICPEINA" is "Crispina" in Greek. A Roman Imperial coin struck for a Greek-speaking province.

 

[downindixie]

Lordmarcovan,thanks for your research! I've just started collecting ancient coins and see that there is a great deal to learn.I have no reason to sell the coin and find the information you have provided exciting.I guess for once my luck maybe changing.I had posted this coin at the Forvm,but didn't get the information you provided here.

 

[lordmarcovan]

Aah, I didn't do much in the way of research- rather, I just happened to know the right person to ask.

Funny how coincidentally close laralucine's "Christina" theory was to "Crispina", even if the timeframe was off.

If you follow the link in my earlier post, Josh gave a retail value estimate in the Collectors Universe thread. ($150-250, I think he said.) Not too shabby for a bronze coin plucked from a bulk lot. Was it one of those "uncleaned" lots?

A brockage is an excellent find, be it on an ancient coin or a modern one. I have never seen one on an ancient like that. Congrats on a lucky find, even if it wasn't a detector find.

 

[laralucine]

Funny how coincidentally close laralucine's "Christina" theory was to "Crispina", even if the timeframe was off.

Hi Marcovan, not a coincidence - I was trying to sound out as much as I could - I don't read Greek, but a lot of the substitutions/transliterations are the same as for the Cyrillic alphabet. Really, the "P"s would sound like rolled r's, so Chrisrina which made even less sense I'm interested to learn as you guys figure this one out...
HH,
Lara

 

[lordmarcovan]

You were a heckuva lot closer than I was with the name. I knew it was ancient, though, so Christina of Sweden was out. Good job!

 

[downindixie]

Yes the coin was in an uncleaned lot,but I have not cleaned it.Now I am encouraged to collect ancient coins even though its seems very difficult and time comsuming to research a coin with no experience!