Cases Where Citizens Repealed Attackers With A Firearm

[dejapooh]

You don't want to open this door trust me... There are some highly educated people in here on this particular subject.... Best of luck.....

Then again, an open mind would open that door. I do not claim to know everything. I can barely claim to know anything. An education is a difficult thing to get, and one in politics is usually the most difficult.

 

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[pong12211]

Then again, an open mind would open that door. I do not claim to know everything. I can barely claim to know anything. An education is a difficult thing to get, and one in politics is usually the most difficult.

That's one way to look at it I suppose...

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

The current standard seems to be if they are a danger to themselves or to others in the considered opinion of a professional. It is kind of wishy washy. There is no definate way to include all who should be included nor exclude all those who should be. I am open to other opinions, as this is not my field of expertise.

Need to take that debate to a thread on mental illness......This thread is on cases where people repeal attackers with firearms....

 

[Gold Maven]

Join the NRA.
Their monthly magazines have an "Armed Citizen" page with a dozen or so stories each month where a firearm was used in self defense.

 

[0121stockpicker]

Join the NRA.
Their monthly magazines have an "Armed Citizen" page with a dozen or so stories each month where a firearm was used in self defense.

Great idea. The NRA CEO already is paying himself over a million a year I'm sure he can use your money too.

 

[dieselram94]

I encourage all to join the NRA, I just got a legislative alert from them today.

 

[dejapooh]

Join the NRA.
Their monthly magazines have an "Armed Citizen" page with a dozen or so stories each month where a firearm was used in self defense.

Would that fall under the catagory of Anecdotal Evidence? How many stories do the tell of people using, keeping, storing their weapons inappropriately and having unfortunate consequences? My guess is that those stories exist in equal numbers yet are not in the pages. Unforturnately, the government no longer keep statistics on such things... Some focused Special Interest Group lobbies effectively to prevent them from even collecting them.

 

[dieselram94]

Would that fall under the catagory of Anecdotal Evidence? How many stories do the tell of people using, keeping, storing their weapons inappropriately and having unfortunate consequences? My guess is that those stories exist in equal numbers yet are not in the pages. Unforturnately, the government no longer keep statistics on such things... Some focused Special Interest Group lobbies effectively to prevent them from even collecting them.

dejapooh, you seem to place a lot of faith in govt statistics being truthful. Whether the govt keeps statistics or not the govt can not be trusted. Remember "Fast and Furious"?

 

[0121stockpicker]

dejapooh, you seem to place a lot of faith in govt statistics being truthful. Whether the govt keeps statistics or not the govt can not be trusted. Remember "Fast and Furious"?

Yet you trust the NRA for unbiased information??

I guess it's a lot easier just to say that no science, statistics, facts, etc can be believed so you just with your own beliefs.

 

[fmerg]

Good point. I should have said useless to me (since I do not hunt). However, no matter how much training you take, accidents happen. Even our vice president shot a man.

I think I should clarify my position.

1) it would be useless to try to add new weapons to the list of weapons that citizens are not allowed to own. Talking about it only makes those who have the inclination to get the weapon go out and actually buy the weapons.

2) We need to have a system in place to try to prevent some people from legally getting guns. Convicted criminals, people suffering from mental disorders, and so on should be prevented from obtaining legal firearms. We can take for granted that if a criminal wants to get a weapon, and legal weapons are not available, then they will get their weapons illegally. I put that in the same camp as those who say that if we make herroin illegal, those who want it will just get it illegally... That's right, and that is how it should be. That does help prevent some people from starting to take, and it adds to the discomfort that builds to hopefully the point where the addict comes to get help...

3) If we are going to have a system in place to check if people are on the list of those who should not have weapons, there should be no legal way around the list. If you go to a gun show, you should be facing a background check. If you are at a pawn shop, Background check. The only place where you will NOT face a background check should be around the back corner at Illegal Al's.

4) We need to streamline the lists and justify them so that you can run a background check anywhere in the country on an Iphone APP. and get results in 10 minutes. Just because we can't do this now does not mean that we should not start to require checks of everyone. Having a goal does not mean you do not start now with what you have. We could not make the moon in 1961, so what was the point of the Mercury project. Putting the system in place now will allow us to learn and improve the system.

5) Personally, I can see requiring a state license in order to BUY a weapon. That to get the license, you need to take safety classes. To keep your license, everyone in the household needs to pass a course specifically for them. My son has taken and passed several weapon safety courses. I don't own a weapon, but I am guessing that since he is a popular kid, one or more of his friends have parents who do. I can also see how having a proactive system would result in a list of those who are likely to have weapons. The revolutionary purpose of the second amendment would prohibit that in my mind. Perhaps we could set up a semi-private company to handle the licensing and make it illegal for them to share their lists with anyone... We have time to work on this...

6) Large Magazines fall directly into the 2nd amendments revolutionary provisions, it seems to me. Then again, we do not allow fully automatic weapons.

7) No weapon currently owned and legally purchased should be taken... Can be taken. We can prohibit the exchange of weapons between private owners. Sure, you have it, but you can not sell it to your neighbor. If he wants one, he should go buy one. Let him face his background check.

i am very glad that you posted the above
your 7 points are what we need along with enforcement of the current laws with a set minimum jail time for those who break the laws
with the exception to the last part of number 7
private sales can be done with the use of an FFL that way a back ground check will be done

 

[dejapooh]

All information needs to be looked at with a Jaundiced eye. When you are looking at evidence, you look at the TYPE of evidence first. Anecdotal evidence is by far the WORST type of evidence there is. Anecdotal evidence tells us that Vaccines cause autism and mental deficiency (which it doesn't). Anecdotal evidence proves global warming and proves it is not happening at the same time. Anecdotal evidence is, by its nature, not really evidence of anything at all. Stories can tell a moral. The wizard of oz is a story about the free issue of silver money. That does not make it evidence of anything.

For anecdotal evidence to be of any value it has to include all of the anecdotes. Does the NRA Include anecdotes that show that perhaps they are not as correct as they say they are? Those anecdotes are out there...

The problem with Science is that most people do not understand how it works...

 

[dejapooh]

i am very glad that you posted the above
your 7 points are what we need along with enforcement of the current laws with a set minimum jail time for those who break the laws
with the exception to the last part of number 7
private sales can be done with the use of an FFL that way a back ground check will be done

Ok, I can live with that addition to #7.

Part of the problem we have is that the group calling for enforcement of current laws is also working to make sure that current laws can not be enforced. They say we should not have universal background checks until the checking system is perfected, then they lobby to make sure that can never happen. I am willing to look at other opinions and adapt my opinions when someone gives me clear evidence (not anecdotes) that I am wrong, or that there is a better way. I do not suffer fools easily. I hate Hypocrites more than fools, which is why I have a REALLY hard time with the NRA.

 

[dieselram94]

Ok, I can live with that addition to #7.

Part of the problem we have is that the group calling for enforcement of current laws is also working to make sure that current laws can not be enforced. They say we should not have universal background checks until the checking system is perfected, then they lobby to make sure that can never happen. I am willing to look at other opinions and adapt my opinions when someone gives me clear evidence (not anecdotes) that I am wrong, or that there is a better way. I do not suffer fools easily. I hate Hypocrites more than fools, which is why I have a REALLY hard time with the NRA.

Hypocrites? You must really hate the Obama administration then.......!

 

[Crispin]

All information needs to be looked at with a Jaundiced eye. When you are looking at evidence, you look at the TYPE of evidence first. Anecdotal evidence is by far the WORST type of evidence there is. Anecdotal evidence tells us that Vaccines cause autism and mental deficiency (which it doesn't). Anecdotal evidence proves global warming and proves it is not happening at the same time. Anecdotal evidence is, by its nature, not really evidence of anything at all. Stories can tell a moral. The wizard of oz is a story about the free issue of silver money. That does not make it evidence of anything.

For anecdotal evidence to be of any value it has to include all of the anecdotes. Does the NRA Include anecdotes that show that perhaps they are not as correct as they say they are? Those anecdotes are out there...

The problem with Science is that most people do not understand how it works...

Why would you want to look at anything with a Jaundiced eye? Jaundice eye, yellow coloring of the icterus, is associated with elevated bilirubin. The most common cause of elevated bilirubin in adults is liver failure. Shortly after jaundice comes elevated ammonium levels. Elevated ammonium levels equals confusion, psychosis, and then death. No, in fact, it is best not to look at things with a jaundiced eye. I urge you to recant this point.

 

[Crispin]

Ok, I can live with that addition to #7.

Part of the problem we have is that the group calling for enforcement of current laws is also working to make sure that current laws can not be enforced. They say we should not have universal background checks until the checking system is perfected, then they lobby to make sure that can never happen. I am willing to look at other opinions and adapt my opinions when someone gives me clear evidence (not anecdotes) that I am wrong, or that there is a better way. I do not suffer fools easily. I hate Hypocrites more than fools, which is why I have a REALLY hard time with the NRA.

I took the Hippocratic Oath...does that qualify me as a hippocrite? Please don't hate me dejapooh, I am quite fond of you.

 

[bill from lachine]

Crispin,

I see you're in fine form this evening.....have a Guinness for me and enjoy the goings on.

Regards + HH

Bill

 

[Crispin]

Crispin,

I see you're in fine form this evening.....have a Guinness for me and enjoy the goings on.

Regards + HH

Bill

Thanks Bill,

Already cracked it open. Trying to de-stress. Things were rough and then some.

Crispin