Cartridge casing id

[fadetoblack]

So it is marked VPT 41. From what I have found online it was made by a company in Finland. From the 41 with no decimal I figure its military ammo from 1941. The question I have is on the caliber. It measures 8mm on the bullet end. Wondering if anyone knows if any military used an 8mm round. Also when fired does the casing expand much? I found it in Vt in the woods and I am guessing that someone fired it at a deer and that it was military surplus ammo. What do you think?

 

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[GMD52]

The German armed forces used the 8x57 caliber firearm from the late 19th century until the end of WW2, it was chambered in the Mauser 1898, and it's many derivitives. The rifles and ammo were manufactured under license fro Mauser in many countries, and has been imported to this country since the end of the war.

 

[fadetoblack]

So it's not made by the company in Finland? Or did the company in Finland make it for Mauser? I got that info from a website with headstamp info.

 

[fadetoblack]

I guess that's what you meant by " under license"....

 

[GMD52]

Yes, it could have been loaded and manufactured I Finland. If memory serves me correctly, I also believe that the Finnish armed forces may have used this caliber at some time. Where are you located in Vt.? It's also been a very popular hunting caliber in the state, and the Mauser is a really well made firearm, one of my favorite.

By the way, welcome to Tnet, and Happy Hunting.

 

[fadetoblack]

Thanks gmd52!! I'm in Randolph...

 

[fadetoblack]

The 41 does mean the year it was made correct?

 

[GMD52]

Yes. Not to far away, I'm in Ferrisburgh.

 

[fadetoblack]

Cool. Nice to know I'm not the only one in the state out there:-) really haven't seen all that many people detecting. I only know one other person who does.

 

[BosnMate]

Back after WWII, as a young boy, I was given a sporterized surplus Mexican military 8mm Mauser. I would think that ammunition would be interchangeable between rifles of various countries. What I'm trying to say is just because the bullet was manufactured in Finland, doesn't mean the hunter was using a Finnish rifle. I was a kid, and shot Mexican military ammo because it was cheap, but hunted with American manufactured 8MM.

 

[osage express]

Today it is called Nammo Corporation.Osage

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Can you post a photo? Also the length of the cartridge will be important. There were several different 8mm rounds from different countries.

 

[GpSnoopy]

Since you have the cartridge, did you measure the outside of the casing neck? That would have been larger than the actual bullet, and it may have expanded slightly after firing. A 6.5x55mm Swedish Mauser has a neck diameter of 7.44mm. 8mm bullets typically have cartridge neck sizes of 8.5-9.0mm. I found examples of the 6.5 cartridges with the VPT 41 headstamp online also.

As Nola_Ken suggest, a photo of the actual cartridge, plus key measurements would help immensely

 

[fadetoblack]

I have a few pics, one with dimensions that I hope you can decipher...the inside of the casing at the bullet end measures exactly 8mm and the outside of it just under 8.5mm. When I took the length measurement I went from the top of the ejection ring. seems that's the way casings are measured...the 11mm measurement is from just above the ejection ring. Photos are on my Iphone so I will post momentarily :-)

 

[fadetoblack]

The 55.5mm measurement is total length....

Sorry about the glare!!
Thanks for the help :-)

 

[GpSnoopy]

So, it appears you have a rimmed 7.92mmx57 (also commonly called 8x57mm). The case length is always measured from the bottom of the casing, including rim. I'll defer to the experts, but from what I read sofar, the rimmed version was not made for the military, but for use in break-action or combination barrel sporting rifles.

The rimmed variant of the 7.92×57mm Mauser, the 8×57mm IRS, was developed later for break-barrel rifles and combination guns. The 8×57mm IRS is commercially offered as a chambering option in European break-action rifles.

 

[fadetoblack]

Hmm. I was thinking military just because of the date stamp instead of caliber. This is what I read on the Internet, but It may not be all cartridges with dates are military. What do you mean by rimmed cartridge? What does IRS stand for?
Thanks gpsnoopy!

 

[GpSnoopy]

Here's a picture showing the rimless 8x57 IS (JS) and rimmed 8x57 IRS (JRS)

There are 3 main types of rims on "modern" cartridges.

 

[GpSnoopy]

There were quite a few variants of this cartridge made. Not all ammo is interchangeable, so these letter suffix's were used to differentiate between some of the varieties.
"J" = "I" (for "Infanterie") in German, and with respect to 8x57 (AKA 7.9 or 7.92x57) means a .318" diameter bullet.
"R" = Rimmed ammo. ammo with R can not be used in bolt action rifles; it is suited only for double and combination guns
"S" = "Sptizgeschoss" or spitzer, and ALWAYS refers to a .323" diameter bullet. Turkish Mausers, VZ-24s, and Kar-98ks use 8x57JS ammo.

The widespread use in German military Gewehr 98 and Karabiner 98k service rifles designed and manufactured by Mauser caused the "Mauser" tag, though the Mauser company had nothing to do with the development of this cartridge.

The letter "J" often mentioned by English speaking sources is actually an "I" for Infanterie (German for "infantry"). A stamped "I" at the cartridge bottom in writing styles used in the past in Germany could be easily mistaken for a "J". Even in the 21st century the "I" is often substituted by a "J" in English speaking communities and German ammunition manufacturers often write "JS" instead of "IS" to avoid confusing customers. The letter "S" stands for Spitzgeschoß ("pointed bullet"), and the English designation "spitzer" for that style of bullet is derived from this German term

 

[fadetoblack]

The IRS seems to contradictory to your previous post if the I stands for infantry?