Captain Kidds Treasure Found?

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Captain Kidd's Treasure Found?

Hopefully this is the right area for this post...
Pirate Captain Kidd's 'treasure' found in Madagascar - BBC News

 

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[jeff of pa]

I would have had a hard time giving that up
till I had a few more

Kool Find

 

[coinman123]

Incredible! I never thought that they would ever find any of it!

 

[cw0909]

the bar is cool, im thinking its not kidds unless he dropped it, or forgot
it when he stripped and sunk the adventure gallery, may be his ship, but
me thinks the 110 pound bar belongs to one of the other ships


"We discovered 13 ships in the bay," Clifford said. "We've been working on two of them over the last 10 weeks.
"One of them is the Fire Dragon, the other is Captain Kidd's ship, the 'Adventure Galley'."
Independent archaeologist John de Bry, who attended the ceremony, said the shipwreck and silver bar were "irrefutable proof that this is indeed the treasure of the 'Adventure Gallery'."

Read more: Pirate Captain Kidd's 'treasure' found in Madagascar - Business Insider

can anyone figure out what country this bar belonged too

 

[timemachine]

Great article, thanks! Couldn't imagine if being dipped in tar and hung by chains would be a deterrence to today's pirates

 

[Hitndahed]

Just wondering about the pic showing that bar on the sea floor.

In those "warm" waters and shallow depth,,wouldn't that bar be so encrusted that you would have to literally scrape the accumulated stuff off of it to see even that it was a silver bar?

They MAY have found something,,, but I am calling BS on that pic showing the diver's hand at the bar.

Hit

 

[Red James Cash]

Looks pretty clean for being under water for 300 plus years

 

[Jason in Enid]

Looks pretty clean for being under water for 300 plus years

For comparison, this is from Mel Fisher's recovery, as they were found on the bottom.

 

[UnderMiner]

I'm still certain most of his treasure is buried not too far from me on Gardiners Island off the coast of Eastern Long Island. Heck maybe he buried some on Long Island too.

 

[archeodive]

The independent archaeologist John Debry did not say that the silver bar it was irrefutable proof Capt. Kidd's treasure had been found, what was left out of his statement was the he also said that more scientific evidence was needed and mentioned that analysis of the wood, among other things, was needed to determine if Clifford was dealing with English oak or not. His ship, the "Adventure Galley," was built in England in, I believe, 1696. Other pirate ships are almost certainly sunk in that bay so it could also be from another ship.

 

[archeodive]

The bar in the upper picture is from the Atocha, the bottom one must be the one found in Madagascar and does not appear to be Spanish.

 

[MichiganMan]

I'm calling BS on the whole show. Did you also notice the late 60s early 70s vibe they gave to the show... trying to emulate Jacques Cousteau and Mel Fisher? Also playing on the National Treasure Freemasons theme. And the guy who "found" the Kidd documents/Church records that show he was a pew "owner". Those were kind of cool and showed another side to Capt. Kidd's thinking but I believe the alleged Freemasons connection is just poppycock. I mean... the show was so ridiculous that I had to fast-forward through a lot of parts. I could pick apart a lot of points on the show but I erased it because I just couldn't stand it. Another show that initially gets your hopes up but you can instantly see that it is just BS... and a play on epic finds of yesteryear. To be honest it reminded me of the Blair Witch Project... just plain stupid. And then they had the camera that had problems with air-bubbles or water droplets and a slight mist on the lense/lense waterproof cover that gave it that blurry-type Loch Ness feel. Just really stupid stuff that cheapened the show really bad. Then they left the "100 lb. silver bar" in the water? Nonsense, they could have just as easily put it in a secure place on land. But now the whole world knows. So why did they do it? Because they wanted to insert the "Mogadishu Pirate is going to steal everything" effect even though it is around 2,000 kilometers more or less from one to the other.
I want to know why they even went in the first place if they weren't going to "do" anything? And then the "operation" is shut down? Horse hockey! I'd rather watch rerun videos of TNet dudes finding steel pennies. I mean, watch the show; these guys weren't excited. They only ACTED excited when they dreamed up the Freemasonry connection. They erroneously think that the Freemasonry of one era, and one Country, is the same as the Freemasonry of another era and applies to all Countries.
What happened to "I went to the Spanish archives and spent 6 months combing through old records and put two and two together and came up with this place for the most probable wreck site"? And then we sent in a team and found artifacts that match the ships log so we are pretty sure we have the correct site and ship name. But noooooo, we went to the Church where Captain Kidd had a pew reserved and a couple of Freemasons sat next to him and BAM! we have a 60 minute show explaining our idiotic theory in which Mel Fisher only took 5 minutes to explain and the rest of the show was treasure coming off the ocean floor.
They are idiots, all of them. Non-actors trying to act. And the producers are even bigger idiots for shaming the Greatest Treasure Hunts/Finds of all time. If they would have just stuck to the honest facts and done it with passion I would have watched with that kid-in-the-candy-store mentality that all of us have who can't do treasure hunts like people with those resources and knowledge can so we have to live vicariously through them. What a let-down. A huge disappointment.

Edited to add: Now I am not saying the find wasn't real but the whole show just cheapened everything and made it all seem like a sham.

 

[au-artifax]

The independent archaeologist John Debry did not say that the silver bar it was irrefutable proof Capt. Kidd's treasure had been found, what was left out of his statement was the he also said that more scientific evidence was needed and mentioned that analysis of the wood, among other things, was needed to determine if Clifford was dealing with English oak or not. His ship, the "Adventure Galley," was built in England in, I believe, 1696. Other pirate ships are almost certainly sunk in that bay so it could also be from another ship.

There is evidence to suggest Kidd's ship the Adventure Galley was not initially built in England, but instead was launched at Castle's yard after being refitted for it's future task with the English. Prior to this it was a merchant ship without such armament. This also explains why the Adventure Galley was so poorly built, and why so soon after launching it was badly in need of new sails and rigging in just over 9 months of service. She was also leaking from the get-go probably after being retrofit with so much added weight.

The most probable birth of the ship was like many other of the East India ships of Danish origins that were pressed into service. At the time many, if not most, of the East India ships had the added ability to maneuver using oars, and very few of the English ships had that ability. And it would only be fitting, that Captain Kidds having been given letters of marque to help support and defend the East India trade routes (a task that even overshadowed the task to protect the Crown's sovereignty, which was the English Navy's burden) should have acquired the ship through East India contacts. At the time England was not in the habit of giving up one of her prized naval vessels. They couldn't, and wouldn't.

So the English Oak probably would prove the exact opposite, that it wasn't the Adventure Galley, which launched in 1695 after refitting, sailed in April of 1696, and was so badly worn by January of 1697 as to need major repairs and maintenance near Madagascar. And this was just the beginning of the Adventure Galleys woes. This was no NEW ship! If there is a way to distinguish between English Oak vs. that from Poland, and it turned out to be Polish Oak, then the chances would be greater that it was the Adventure Galley, but not proof positive. Most Danish ships used Oak from Poland regions like Vestula, or various timbers from Lower Saxony (and various other regions like Luneberger, Heidi, or Westfalia) in Germany. (Possibly they can tell the difference considering the age and circumstances, like being submerged for so long, by using dendrochronology.)

One would also wonder, towards the end of his various journeys would Kidd have entrusted his wealth and treasure to the holds of his most UNSEAWORTHY vessel? Isn't that why they kept the more seaworthy ships, in Kidd's and the crew's own testimony? It is a matter of record and fact his treasures were moved to his "Quedagh Merchant Adventure Prize" (previously just "Quedagh Merchant") and eventually offloaded from there in Santa Catalina.

Food for thought!!!

 

[au-artifax]

the bar is cool, im thinking its not kidds unless he dropped it, or forgot
it when he stripped and sunk the adventure gallery, may be his ship, but
me thinks the 110 pound bar belongs to one of the other ships


"We discovered 13 ships in the bay," Clifford said. "We've been working on two of them over the last 10 weeks.
"One of them is the Fire Dragon, the other is Captain Kidd's ship, the 'Adventure Galley'."
Independent archaeologist John de Bry, who attended the ceremony, said the shipwreck and silver bar were "irrefutable proof that this is indeed the treasure of the 'Adventure Gallery'."






View attachment 1158448

I think Clifford is jumping the gun IMHO



What I can tell so far from the pic:

- the large "s" is for silver

- the iXB is the Britannia (Great Britain) hallmark associated with the new standard ("new" in 1697) of purity which was 95%

- the upside down [T] sign is a depiction of a scale whereas the material (silver) was tested by two formal measurements to be of the Britannia (Great Britain) silver standard of 95%

Note that "Great Britain" does not mean "England". It could have been ANY of the commonwealths, including India or other British held countries.

This metal pig, if it doesn't prove to be some other substance than silver, could have come from any ship carrying British lading from around the world.

IMHO of course!


Also IMHO, this (silver?) pig came from another unknown (to the public) shipwreck, (BUT..... the name " Kidd" sells more shares to fund the expedition, so of course it must be Kidd's.... rrrriiiiiiggggght?! ).