Cannons off of Daytona

[Blazer11]

That’s the one. Some accounts say there were only 3 ships, 2 of which went north and 1 went south when the storm hit. With that being said, I’ve also heard that all 3 sailed south to escape the storm. My dad would always tell me about the 3 French ships that sank at Daytona but the story was not filled with details or facts for that matter.

 

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[Madmox]

Man I wish we had good stories like that on the west coast. But the water is cold, dark, and extra dangerous and when ships went missing even close to shore they are almost always untouchable because our shelf drops off so fast. In Florida you can be 4 miles off shore and be in 200 feet of water. Here you go 100 yards off shore and the water is that deep it seems like.

 

[Salvor6]

Man I wish we had good stories like that on the west coast.

Well move over to the west coast of FL and you can make your own stories like that.

 

[Madmox]

Well move over to the west coast of FL and you can make your own stories like that.

Ohhh man. I’ve been to Florida. Good to visit but I’m not sure I want to live there. I’ll stick to the Pacific Northwest. The west coast actually had a wealthier galleon fleet. The Manila galleons. But treasure hunting has never really caught on here. Generally for the reasons stated above.

 

[xaos]

Bit of a swim from the PAC NW to the Manila Galleons, no?

Wealthier for the time?

Beeswax?

 

[Madmox]

Bit of a swim from the PAC NW to the Manila Galleons, no?

Wealthier for the time?

Beeswax?

Wealthier than the Atocha galleons period. The Manila galleons ran from the Asian continent across the Pacific to Mid-Oregon then down the coast to Panama. There is a Town in Oregon called Gold Beach, just north of the California border. It’s called gold beach, not because of gold but because one of the Manila Galleons wrecked right off the coast there. One of the main things it was carrying was amber and even today you can find it washed up on the beach. That’s what gave it, it’s name. There are stories of them wrecking around the Channel Islands also though I am not sure there was ever been anything recovered or any wrecks positively identified from them. They were definitely all up and down the Pacific Coast. The wrecks here are just FAR more inaccessible.

 

[xaos]

umm, the Nehalum beeswax wreck has yet to recover anything but beeswax. I would not consider that, or the wrecks coming from that direction of little to marginal value as far as what we would consider treasure these days.

I believe they were bringing goods of value to the Americas to trade for silver and bring supplies to the Americas, not bring it with them. As the Asian markt valued silver, not gold, ships returning would have been loaded with silver.

This northern route TO the Americas would not have been loaded with anything of much value today.

The galleon trade was supplied by merchants largely from port areas of Fujian who traveled to Manila to sell the Spaniards spices, porcelain, ivory, lacquerware, processed silk cloth and other valuable commodities. Cargoes varied from one voyage to another but often included goods from all over Asia - From China, jade, wax, gunpowder and silk from China; amber and cotton from India; rugs from India; spices from the East Indies and a variety of goods from Japan, including fans, chests, screens and porcelain.

The Chinese porcelain market was not hot until a few hundred years later, and since we do not find the Chinese porcelain, jade, and lacquerware in South America, I am doubtful very much of it was traded.



The route going back with the treasure was not up the West Coast

 

[Philvis]

umm, the Nehalum beeswax wreck has yet to recover anything but beeswax. I would not consider that, or the wrecks coming from that direction of little to marginal value as far as what we would consider treasure these days.

I believe they were bringing goods of value to the Americas to trade for silver and bring supplies to the Americas, not bring it with them. As the Asian markt valued silver, not gold, ships returning would have been loaded with silver.

This northern route TO the Americas would not have been loaded with anything of much value today.

The galleon trade was supplied by merchants largely from port areas of Fujian who traveled to Manila to sell the Spaniards spices, porcelain, ivory, lacquerware, processed silk cloth and other valuable commodities. Cargoes varied from one voyage to another but often included goods from all over Asia - From China, jade, wax, gunpowder and silk from China; amber and cotton from India; rugs from India; spices from the East Indies and a variety of goods from Japan, including fans, chests, screens and porcelain.

View attachment 1685998

The route going back with the treasure was not up the West Coast
View attachment 1685999

Does recovered beeswax have any value?

 

[xaos]

Does recovered beeswax have any value?

You can find pieces regularly on the beach after a storm. I have not heard of anyone placing much value on it.

I suspect there was an abundance of spice on the vessels.

NOTE: Due to massive thread drift, further posts on new Manila Galleons thread...sorry.

 

[Tanneyhill]

The Manila galleons ran from the Asian continent across the Pacific to Mid-Oregon then down the coast to Panama

I thought the Manila galleon trade was between Manilla and Acapulco at which point the cargo would be loaded on mule trains on land to Veracruz - did they also or sometimes go all the way down to Panama to unload their cargo?

 

[lukdiver2]

Doubt there's much value. My twin brother does scrimshaw and interacts with guys doing blades. He recently delt with a neighbor who had a relative that recovered a piece of bee's wax from the beach associated with the 'Bees Wax' wreck.. This would from the Burgos (Manilla Galleon). The relative was using it to wax thread for hand-sewing thru thick fabric. There's historical record of the hundreds of tons of bee's wax being recovered back to Lewis & Clark expedition. He treasures it.

 

[ARC]

The route going back with the treasure was not up the West Coast
View attachment 1685999

This map is SO incorrect.

 

[ARC]

This map is a basic rendering... BUT correctly shows the routes and information...
This is the actual route taken.
Gold and silver traveled up and around the GOM... down the West coast of Florida to Havana then on.

The Spanish used this route explicitly for many reasons...
The main one being the use of the natural current of the gulf stream "going with the flow" instead of trudging against it.
That combined with a safer more controlled use of their own territories onshore along the way made the routes favorable overall.
There were also MANY other reasons they used this route and hugged the shorelines of the Americas.

At exactly St. Augustine... and under the protection of the Spanish net .. they would turn East.

Augustine was the last possible safe stop / area to adjust / retrofit etc. before the most vulnerable part of the route... after that they were "at the mercy of the sea".

 

[ARC]

I know versions of trade routes abound with the drawings made from thoughts of "shortest distance"
Most of these IMO are fantasy drawings made by those without the implementation of actual facts.
They again IMO... are drawn up by todays logical estimates... by todays dreamers... based on opinions.
Not fact.
They are nothing more than opinionated cartoon maps.

In reality... these maps are far off from the real life routes and truths... and due to the lack of historical information and data.
BUT...
One must use logic and known empirical facts when determining such things...

Empirical facts like....
Anytime mariners were in open ocean... out of sight of land... the ship and crew were at high risk overall... and obviously much less control.
When it came to transporting wealth ... the all important of important... this control was a serious calculated undertaking and never taken with chance in the plan.

Almost all explorers and routes used by our ancient mariners were all based "on an out"... and land being the only out.
Even the bravest or brave respected / feared open sea vulnerability / danger / risk and would always choose a route closer to land over open water unless unavoidable.
Open waters were always the riskiest part of any journey / trip.
Taking chances was not of favor in those days... and would almost always result in a worse case scenario and was considered taking chances... which was considered foolish.
Safe was the best bet... even at the cost of time and distances.
Superstitions ran the days and one would be hard pressed to have settled a backing crew willing to embark on any risky endeavors... scared or skeptical crew were a dangerous crew.
Missing / lost AKA "just gone" ships along with other horror stories of myths or truths were everyday stories that kept things on a reality keel when common sense and risks were concerned.
Most stuck to the tried and true methods as opposed to chancing anything.
AND THIS... was especially true...
when transporting the very things that kept you alive or in power.

SO...... next time...
When you see a map with a route straight across the Gulf Of Mexico... heh

 

[ARC]

Well at least Dizzy liked it. :P