Found in Oklahoma about a foot into the ground near a creek. Does anyone know what this is? How old it might be?
Can you Identify?
- Thread starter nicksiq
- Start date
Charlie P. (NY) said:
Hi Charlie, check out Fig. 19 from that site...
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Ken from Atlanta
Sr. Member
I think it's pretty much a sure bet that it's WW2 era, I've looked and can't find any reference to a military training center near Edmond though, so I wonder if it was someones souvenir and maybe a kid took it out to play with and lost it along the creek?
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newbob
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Chesterfield County man who operated a Civil War relics business was killed yesterday when some munitions he apparently handled -- possibly a cannonball -- exploded outside a detached garage at his home.
Police were withholding the victim's name until he can be positively identified, but neighbors identified him as Sam White, who Chesterfield land records list as the owner of the house.
A large chunk of the ordnance flew into the air and smashed through the front-porch roof of Brian Dunkerly's house about a quarter-mile away. The 14to 15-pound chunk of metal then shattered his glass front door, hit the interior wood floor and bounced to the ceiling before coming to rest in the center of his living room.
His 13-year-old son was upstairs on a computer when the projectile came crashing into the house. Aaron Dunkerly wasn't hurt.
Dunkerly's son -- and many other area residents -- heard the initial explosion that killed their neighbor about 1:25 p.m. in the 14100 block of Granite Pointe Court in the Glebe Point subdivision off Bradley Bridge Road.
After the initial blast, Dunkerly's son "said about five or ten seconds later he heard another explosion, but there was a little shaking to it," Dunkerly said. That was because the projectile had penetrated their house.
The boy ran downstairs and saw the piece of metal on the living-room floor. "He thought somebody had thrown something through the door," Dunkerly said.
Police said the victim was in his mid-50s. Neighbors said White maintained a Web site called Sam White Relics.
The site says the business is "devoted to the relic hunter, collector and beginning amateur who are interested in preserving a piece of Southern history as well as a piece of these United States." The site contains photos of various relics for sale, such as Civil War artillery shells, cannonballs, bullets, buckles and other artifacts.
The explosion caused police and fire officials to evacuate about 20 to 30 nearby homes until authorities could determine the area was safe. Police found other unexploded ordnance at the house.
"We evacuated the neighbors in the immediate area just because of the potential that there could be some kind of secondary device," said Chesterfield police Capt. Steve Neal. "We don't have any reason to believe there will be an additional explosion, but we would rather be safe than sorry."
Neal described the device that exploded as military ordnance, possibly from the Civil War. Late yesterday, police said the evacuated residents might not be allowed to return to their homes until this morning. State police bomb experts, along with agents of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, were assisting Chesterfield police and fire with the investigation.
"We're going to let the experts get up in there, and they are going to give us more information about what might have caused this explosion and whether there is anything still live that might be dangerous to anybody in the area," Neal said.
Neal said Greenwood Presbyterian Church at 7710 Woodpecker Road had opened to accommodate any neighbors who needed shelter. "Some of them had to leave without taking very many belongings," Neal said.
Neighbors reported the explosion after hearing the blast and then finding their neighbor fatally injured in his backyard, Neal said.
Todd Gallagher, who lives about 150 yards away, was sitting at his computer in an upstairs room when the blast rumbled the windows of his house.
"I thought it was dynamite over at [the nearby] Shoosmith landfill," he said, "because it was something that was very, very loud -- more than just a gunshot. But it seemed like it was something that was pretty local, so I thought it potentially could be a propane tank exploding. A lot of the houses around here have propane tanks."
Gallagher, whose home is about three houses away, said he then poked his head outside to "see if there was a car crash that caused such an explosion."
He then learned what happened to his neighbor.
"Obviously, it's an awful tragedy for the family," he said. "It's just tremendous that something like that could happen with such an old piece" of munitions. "But it shows the danger of that stuff."
Gallagher said his neighbor had experience with Civil War ordnance. "It wasn't like somebody who just started getting into these things and . . . started playing with it."
Police were withholding the victim's name until he can be positively identified, but neighbors identified him as Sam White, who Chesterfield land records list as the owner of the house.
A large chunk of the ordnance flew into the air and smashed through the front-porch roof of Brian Dunkerly's house about a quarter-mile away. The 14to 15-pound chunk of metal then shattered his glass front door, hit the interior wood floor and bounced to the ceiling before coming to rest in the center of his living room.
His 13-year-old son was upstairs on a computer when the projectile came crashing into the house. Aaron Dunkerly wasn't hurt.
Dunkerly's son -- and many other area residents -- heard the initial explosion that killed their neighbor about 1:25 p.m. in the 14100 block of Granite Pointe Court in the Glebe Point subdivision off Bradley Bridge Road.
After the initial blast, Dunkerly's son "said about five or ten seconds later he heard another explosion, but there was a little shaking to it," Dunkerly said. That was because the projectile had penetrated their house.
The boy ran downstairs and saw the piece of metal on the living-room floor. "He thought somebody had thrown something through the door," Dunkerly said.
Police said the victim was in his mid-50s. Neighbors said White maintained a Web site called Sam White Relics.
The site says the business is "devoted to the relic hunter, collector and beginning amateur who are interested in preserving a piece of Southern history as well as a piece of these United States." The site contains photos of various relics for sale, such as Civil War artillery shells, cannonballs, bullets, buckles and other artifacts.
The explosion caused police and fire officials to evacuate about 20 to 30 nearby homes until authorities could determine the area was safe. Police found other unexploded ordnance at the house.
"We evacuated the neighbors in the immediate area just because of the potential that there could be some kind of secondary device," said Chesterfield police Capt. Steve Neal. "We don't have any reason to believe there will be an additional explosion, but we would rather be safe than sorry."
Neal described the device that exploded as military ordnance, possibly from the Civil War. Late yesterday, police said the evacuated residents might not be allowed to return to their homes until this morning. State police bomb experts, along with agents of the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, were assisting Chesterfield police and fire with the investigation.
"We're going to let the experts get up in there, and they are going to give us more information about what might have caused this explosion and whether there is anything still live that might be dangerous to anybody in the area," Neal said.
Neal said Greenwood Presbyterian Church at 7710 Woodpecker Road had opened to accommodate any neighbors who needed shelter. "Some of them had to leave without taking very many belongings," Neal said.
Neighbors reported the explosion after hearing the blast and then finding their neighbor fatally injured in his backyard, Neal said.
Todd Gallagher, who lives about 150 yards away, was sitting at his computer in an upstairs room when the blast rumbled the windows of his house.
"I thought it was dynamite over at [the nearby] Shoosmith landfill," he said, "because it was something that was very, very loud -- more than just a gunshot. But it seemed like it was something that was pretty local, so I thought it potentially could be a propane tank exploding. A lot of the houses around here have propane tanks."
Gallagher, whose home is about three houses away, said he then poked his head outside to "see if there was a car crash that caused such an explosion."
He then learned what happened to his neighbor.
"Obviously, it's an awful tragedy for the family," he said. "It's just tremendous that something like that could happen with such an old piece" of munitions. "But it shows the danger of that stuff."
Gallagher said his neighbor had experience with Civil War ordnance. "It wasn't like somebody who just started getting into these things and . . . started playing with it."
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imafishingnutt
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Federal
Hotchkiss
DIAMETER: 3.56 inches
GUN: 20-pounder Parrott rifle, 3.67-inch caliber
LENGTH: 10 inches
WEIGHT: 18 pounds 1 ounce
CONSTRUCTION: Shell
SABOT: Lead band
FUZING: Percussion, iron anvil cap
The 20-pounder (3.67-inch caliber) Hotchkiss pattern projectiles, often referred to as long-pattern Hotchkiss projectiles, are rare. It is thought that they were seldom used because they put too much strain on the Parrott rifles.
I just looked at a pile of Hotchkiss shells and think maby it is in fact not Hotchkis but close to it.
Hotchkiss
DIAMETER: 3.56 inches
GUN: 20-pounder Parrott rifle, 3.67-inch caliber
LENGTH: 10 inches
WEIGHT: 18 pounds 1 ounce
CONSTRUCTION: Shell
SABOT: Lead band
FUZING: Percussion, iron anvil cap
The 20-pounder (3.67-inch caliber) Hotchkiss pattern projectiles, often referred to as long-pattern Hotchkiss projectiles, are rare. It is thought that they were seldom used because they put too much strain on the Parrott rifles.
I just looked at a pile of Hotchkiss shells and think maby it is in fact not Hotchkis but close to it.
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Charlie P. (NY)
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Locally if you take them to a "professional" they will take it to the dump and put a wad of C-4 beside it. A big smoking hole means it was a dud. A REALLY big smoking hole means it was not. And that's the end of your find.
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BuckleBoy
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Moe (fl) said:
"unstable" if you drill into the cavity, but otherwise relatively safe. Just keep it in a cool place.
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Jagdpanther
Sr. Member
Based on your information, looks like a 75mm M72 AP-T. The projectile has a machined bourlette and a boattail base.
M3 or M4 Gun (WWII)
Projectile has no explosive filler (solid steel). Tracer element most likely burned out.
Not to step on any toes but any time you find a UXO (unexploded ordinance) consider it dangerous! It doesn't matter how old or rusty it looks. As military explosives age and are exposed to the elements they can become unstable. Sensitive to heat, but also shock and even vibrations. Soaking with oil will not inert most explosvies.
This is coming from 30 years as an Army Ammunition Inspector.
Be safe!
M3 or M4 Gun (WWII)
Projectile has no explosive filler (solid steel). Tracer element most likely burned out.
Not to step on any toes but any time you find a UXO (unexploded ordinance) consider it dangerous! It doesn't matter how old or rusty it looks. As military explosives age and are exposed to the elements they can become unstable. Sensitive to heat, but also shock and even vibrations. Soaking with oil will not inert most explosvies.
This is coming from 30 years as an Army Ammunition Inspector.
Be safe!
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Charlie P. (NY)
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Who's got better eyes than me?
Wasn't the M3 a "17 Pounder"? That 3-1/2 pounders (25%) more than Ken's find.
Buy, hey, I'm not going to argue with a Army Ammunition Inspector when it comes to Army Ammunition. ;-)
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dg39
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If it was found not far from Fort Sill there is a very good museum there. Google the museum and send them a photo. From the dealings I have had with them in the past, they may be helpful. I dont know the current Directors name.
DG
DG
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Jazdo
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I have to agree with grndfisher.. it is potentially dangerous. As a combat engineer we are trained to treat uxo unexploded ordinance as live munitions and either call disposal or blow it ourselve. Age has nothing to do with live or not!
As far as what round it is hard to tell
As far as what round it is hard to tell
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Jagdpanther
Sr. Member
The Brits came up with the "Pounder" designation and it goes back to when cannons fired solid cannon balls. It does have a correlation to caliber though. The 70mm - 76mm guns went from a 12 up to an 18 "Pounder" or a 3" gun.
HH
HH
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lostcauses
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- Feb 4, 2008
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Unreal stuff here.
Simple they posted here due to they did not know what it was. Advice on any potential live item like this is
"Call some one who does KNOW or your local law enforcement: Better to lose an item than you or your loved ones."
Trying to get folks by instructions from a board to identify an item some one who may not know how to handle an explosive round might just get them hurt or killed. Lucky from the posts I have read on this tread alone; some have not been hurt.
Simple they posted here due to they did not know what it was. Advice on any potential live item like this is
"Call some one who does KNOW or your local law enforcement: Better to lose an item than you or your loved ones."
Trying to get folks by instructions from a board to identify an item some one who may not know how to handle an explosive round might just get them hurt or killed. Lucky from the posts I have read on this tread alone; some have not been hurt.
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