can the 1860/70 census provide leads on where to look for caches

[cw0909]

i have a question about the 1860/70 census, the Q
(value of personal estate),i circled it in red

is this Q referring to the amount of cash on hand
and or what he has in a bank, and why was this info
needed in 1860/70 and no other yrs that i see,or can
remember ever being asked on the census,in the sheet
jpg,you can see those folks had a good some of money,
for 1860,the blanks between the amounts,are the line
that lists,children's names,they had no $ amounts,only
the father of the fam was listed for $ amount, and
looking through more sheets,not everyone listed a $
amount. the big Q,is did they bury any of it,with some
research a person could prob find where they lived,
and maybe with some luck a shopping mall wont be sitting
on it
i cant provide links to the originals,because you have
to be logged in,for ohio see link,bottom of pg,and i dont
know of a free access to any of the census
at this link you can see an img of the pg abe Lincoln
is on, click the census img
http://search.ancestry.com/search/db.aspx?dbid=7667&o_xid=21837&o_lid=21837
more img in google search
http://tinyurl.com/3pls25z


blank US Census Forms
1790-1930
http://www.ancestry.com/charts/census.aspx

history of the U.S. census from U.S. Gov
http://www.census.gov/history/www/through_the_decades/index_of_questions/

pro quest offers this through public libraries, maybe your library
has it mine does,you need your card # to access
http://www.heritagequestonline.com/hqoweb/library/do/index

the ohio link you need your card # to access
http://www.oplin.org/databases/proxy/proxy.php?qurl=http://www.heritagequestonline.com

 

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[Kentucky Kache]

Personal property was anything of value that the person possessed. This means money...silver bars... slaves... whatever. They didn't count personal property in every census.

When you check those census records, pay attention to the personal value column. Let's say that the last census before his death gives a man's personal value as $5000. Then you find that same man's death record and bill of sale after death, which records the value of his personal property. If his value at death is significantly less than it was in the last census, that tells you that the missing value could have been money. Now see if you can find that missing value/money in the records. Check the personal property values of all his descendants. Check to see if he left a will, etc. If you have researched this man thoroughly and can find no reason for this money to be missing, there is a real possibility that it was buried. This doesn't mean it's a sure thing, but it is a possibility. And we know such things did happen a lot back then. Now, if you actually find a story of buried money associated with this man, you have good reason to believe it. You then have a cache lead worth the effort of exploring further.

 

[Kentucky Kache]

Estate values are different than personal property values. Personal property is what you want to search out. Estates would have been sold after the person's death, so that value is pretty much accounted for.

 

[Connecticut Sam]

I am total confused.

 

[Shortstack]

I am total confused.

Personal property value is the "liquid" stuff.........money, gold, silver, etc. Estate property is that personal value (money and disposable assets) PLUS the real property; the land, house, farm equipment, accounts receivable, and accounts payable. Folks back then didn't want the government knowing too much about their personal business anymore than we do today. They could tell the census workers anything, and that info would be listed on the forms.

 

[teleprospector]

I am total confused.

Personal property value is the "liquid" stuff.........money, gold, silver, etc. Estate property is that personal value (money and disposable assets) PLUS the real property; the land, house, farm equipment, accounts receivable, and accounts payable. Folks back then didn't want the government knowing too much about their personal business anymore than we do today. They could tell the census workers anything, and that info would be listed on the forms.

Yes I have found that to be true, that is people telling census workers anything back then.
Sometimes the census workers even asked neighbors questions b/c of no one being there at the time and that was what got written down.
One thing is pretty consistent though in those old records and that is the name of the person and the address of the property. Even if you discover a discrepancy in the "value" column, you still need to know where to find the property.
So if you can read the name and address clearly of the person you are researching, that address can still be tracked down today using plat maps and assessment records at the county clerck's office.
The local historical society should have maps of the period showing what land a person had.
These documents will get you in the area of where this persons property was even if there is a subdivision or a commercial buildover at that location now. Sometimes I enter the address into google maps and it gets me to the area.
Hope this helps,
Jon

 

[Scar]

Census records provide valuable parts to the research of people and places. The census data is a good starting point in early research into clues to a possible cache being buried or hidden on a certain property. Home ownership would be an important factor. I wouldn't think that a renter would be likely to bury any loot. Look at the number of people in the household and make note the relationship to the head of the household. If there are a number of house keepers, servants and laborers located on the premises this would be a sign of wealth. I would think that the fewer the relatives living in the household, the better chance of finding a cache. Look for young children in a particular year then go forward 10 years and see if the child is still there. If the child is not there then he/she could have died. Bring your research forward by following out all relatives, if you can kill off all relatives on paper with the original head of household still standing then you may have something worth doing more research on. At this point you could go backward in census records using the head of households name. Look for possible relatives that could exist that were not in your original census, try to kill everyone off on paper again. Genealogy web sites will provide much of the information you will need. On many of these sites you may find where someone has done all the work for you and may even provide commentary of the life of the individual. Once you have narrowed things down then check the clerk of court for probates. In the probate check for a descriptive list of property. If the person has several bank accounts and stocks and bonds then this person would be less likely to have buried a cache but if the estate seems large as to land and home value and short on bank and stock then you may have hit on a prime target.

 

[cw0909]

scar funny you gave me those tips,as thats what ive been doing for
a month or so,and thanks everyone for your replies too,very helpful
now if i can find something with the research i did

i found some details about A,see jpg,i know about where his house was.
he was a merchant and had a farm,lived 12mile out of town, came from
B.MA. in 1842,with his son and wife, bought 26K+ land,built a 4bdr house
actually he built 3 houses,the small one he lived in,when he came here,
then when his wife joined him a yr later,he started building,another
bigger house,and helped his son build a house,he also gave his son 4k
acres,and money,when the son married,he had 2 daughters. both the father
and the son went to the CW,and dad died from illness,in late 62,the son
died from illness in fall of 63. As wife died in 77,the sons wife remarried
and moved,not sure where,one daughter stayed on the property,she had 4 kids
2 died at ages 3,8,daughter died in 1917,her husband died in 1919,the kids
sold the land to a land developer in 23,that co went bust in 31,and the place
where the house ect. is located is still a township.
ive been to that park many times, b4 i knew about As house ect.
and even in the area where the house was.its pretty over grown,except for
the trails that where made,when it became a park,back in the late 1940s
or early 50s
i cant metal detect there,but i can probe, and in the fall when most of the
growth is thinner,im going to check it out,maybe ill get lucky, and he buried
some $$$
i got lucky with the info,a county genealogy group,had took the time to put
some stuff up,from some old journals,and newspaper articles,ect.im going to
work on B,and a couple of others over the winter, if anyone else pursues this
type of cache hunting,be sure to check on the banks for your area of interest
mine had a bank in late 40s,it went bust in mid 50s,the next one to open was
in 78,and still operates today,the closest one that worked in 1860 was 35 mile
away. while researching banks i found some interesting info,ill start another
thread for that later

 

[Scar]

Good luck CW. With my work I have to do a lot of research into ownership of land and people.

 

[cw0909]

Good luck CW. With my work I have to do a lot of research into ownership of land and people.

yea thanks,prob wont be that lucky again,sometimes the records just arent there
for what ever reason

since it was cooler,i went to look at site,i found what looks like a bridge piling,i dont
think it was there when A lived there,it had a piece of formed re-bar sticking out of it,like
maybe the kind,they used in the 30s,40s
the maintenance building was a surprise,prob been there at least 30 yr
at flat 1,there are a lot of rocks piled together,maybe when A was clearing the land
and behind flat 1 are 2 large trees, about 3.5' between them,and about 15' away is a
really large huge rock,to much thorny brush to get to it.same with most of the flats
thorny brush everywhere, i plan to go probe in the fall,when most of the brush has died
back some
sorry forgot the large trees

 

[calisdad]

Great detective work. Good luck.

 

[starsplitter]

Great research work... the rebar on the "bridge" - might want to look a bit closer in case it was cut stone that was capped or wrapped in concrete later... just a thought, but it probably wouldn't matter. If you think you're onto a large cache it might be worth blowing up a topo map and plotting features you've seen from your on site surveys that look intriguing. When combined or layered with other source material (plat maps, historical topos, etc.), something may stand out.

 

[cw0909]

ive been wondering about, the type of box, jar,ect. the $$ would be stored/buried in
with the closest stable bank 35 mile away,and A. off to the CW,im thinking he prob
had a $$ box/jar on hand in or near the house, he/wife used on a regular basis,but if
A. cached $$ in the wood/field ect. near his home,what type of container do you think
he would use

 

[starsplitter]

A list of potential containers could be developed by browsing TNet pages - in other words, just about anything, even a pipe sticking out of the ground. Regardless, you'd get a hit with your detector with the right coil. He may have split caches - with that much money involved it is reasonable. While probably within eye shot of the house caches needn't be on top of it. He may have also used topography to help shield himself from observation too or as markers. I'm sure you'll get lots of great suggestions from the people here. I'm looking forward to following your adventure.

 

[Scar]

CW I have heard of butter churns being used.

 

[cw0909]

update,found out what the piling thing is,it was a RR bridge,put up around 1876
for the mill a few miles away,the RR was to ferry goods and people to the mill
from that side of the river,it went straight to the yard,the mill closed down
in the 30s, and now is a diff co. there,the trestle was tore down,when it was
made a park
A-s Ggd wrote a memoir for a part of a local historical record/book,she tells
about the farm,where the buildings are and who worked there and how life went
on for Mrs.A,and her grandM,after A died and the war
the good is i know where the buildings were,the bad several people worked for
the As,so if something was cached,it could have been found
in the book there are pics and the pic of the big trees is one of them,there was
what looks like a slaughter rack and barrel in the pic,it looks like something
is attached to the one tree,and maybe a smoke house behind the big rock
the brush is still thick,so waiting on nov,dec to go probing

and on a side note,always check the historical notes/books at your local his.society
if something is named,history of X county whatever yr,it would be worth looking at
back in the day people wrote about anything,and everything,to mark as record, for their
fam,area,life,local news,ect.
ive found a few more leads to follow,that may lead to a forgotten cache,Mrs,so and so
at the his.society,thinks it is just wonderful and great that i love history,and she likes
that i handle the materials with latex gloves,and sometimes i bring a pastry for her

 

[Frankn]

does anybody know a site that is really free to get census info. They all want credit info, before they give info. I signed up for a lifetime membership on one site and all it got me was an index of what they have. You had to get an advanced membership before you got the details. Frank

 

[Kentucky Kache]

does anybody know a site that is really free to get census info. They all want credit info, before they give info. I signed up for a lifetime membership on one site and all it got me was an index of what they have. You had to get an advanced membership before you got the details. Frank

I haven't checked for a while, but Rootsweb use to have the 1880 census for free. Check Ancestry.com also. They run free trials from time to time.

 

[cw0909]

none of theses are complete,you might find what your looking for in one or all or none

pro quest offers this through public libraries, maybe your library
city,county,state,univ
has it mine does,you need your card # to access
http://www.heritagequestonline.com/hqoweb/library/do/index


with img,not searchable by name,see sub-collections
http://www.archive.org/details/us_census

http://www.census-online.com/

http://www.censusfinder.com/missouri.htm

http://www.us-census.org/states/

http://www.us-census.org/inventory/

http://www.usgenweb.org/

http://genealogytrails.com/

http://files.usgwarchives.net/

http://www.usgwarchives.net/index.htm

http://usgwcensus.org/cenfiles/

https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/show#uri=http://hr-search-
api:8080/searchapi/search/collection/1473181

https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/show#uri=http://hr-search-
api:8080/searchapi/search/collection/1438024

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/default.asp

depending on what you are looking for,this can be helpful
http://www.census.gov/prod/www/abs/decennial/
http://www.census.gov/population/www/censusdata/hiscendata.html

http://www.researchguides.net/census/free.htm
http://www.mytrees.com/cgi-bin/ellis?583002+1242996220+100000+English+0-0
http://files.usgwarchives.net/wv/summers/history/hicks.txt

fixed a link

the 1940 census online,only search-able by region,youll have to check for your
name/s,its free but if you can narrow the region/s down,you may find what your
looking for,or wait until it gets archived as searchable
https://the1940census.com/

 

[starsplitter]

Check your local library. They usually have a geneological section with free online access.