California to Allow Suction Dredging in 2019?

[Reed Lukens]

https://www.icmj.com/magazine/article/california-to-allow-suction-dredging-in-2019-3828/

 

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[rodoconnor]

I think everyone is kinda shell shocked. We've had high expectations before , only to be let down with ridiculous court decisions. God, knows we all want this to be true ! Thanks to EVERYONE involved in this !!

 

[winners58]

False Hope, even if your mining claim is on the list as open (2012 f&g suction dredge rules)
they have been working on keeping rivers closed with endangered species listings and removing TMDL's from the 303(d) listings
the 2010 listings had TMDL's for in-stream mining, they were all removed for the 2012 listings
now they have started over, TMDL development takes 4-5 years and has to be for specific use's.

the other thing that I think is going to be a problem, they have been working on removing small suction dredging from Dredge & Fill (404)
one single line of code and you will never get 401 certification for an Army Corp. 404 permit see page 12 of the dredge & Fill draft rules
from the draft rules; > Suction dredge mining activities for mineral recovery regulated under CWA section 402 <
that's why I think things have been held up to get this through the OAL administrative law process.
402 is an NPDES just like Oregon or Idaho. This year in Oregon things are so restricted only 19 people so far have applied for the NPDES permit.

 

[Hoser John]

When donkeys fly and chickens talk. My life has been ruined by this stinkn' bs bans, restrictions and law? what law? as no letter of the law for dredgers sic sic sic sad state of affairs-John

 

[principedeleon]

There must be a lott of gold in the rivers of cali from all the hydraulic mining activity.

 

[winners58]

There must be a lott of gold in the rivers of cali from all the hydraulic mining activity.

Yes there is, Pounds and Pounds, as much or more still than Alaska so they say...

 

[russau]

I guess time will tell and the California VOTER's will have to get with it to change these so-called "representative's" view on the law that is OUR federal right!!

 

[Goldwasher]

ACOE only has jurisdiction over navigable waters.

The majority of waterways in Ca. do not fall under their permitting

 

[Goldwasher]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navigability

 

[chlsbrns]

We did some dredging in California this past winter without any problems but we were dredging for mercury. Mercury is not a mineral so we were not dredging as defined in the ban. We also opened up a tunnel for later exploration to protect our rights to the minerals.

Under new state law effective January 1, 2016, the use of vacuum or suction dredge equipment is defined to mean the use of a mechanized or motorized system for removing or assisting in the removal of, or the processing of, material from the bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake in order to recover minerals.

As stated we dredged in order to recover mercury

 

[russau]

Well that's some reading between the lines!! SALUTE!!

 

[arizau]

We did some dredging in California this past winter without any problems but we were dredging for mercury. Mercury is not a mineral so we were not dredging as defined in the ban. We also opened up a tunnel for later exploration to protect our rights to the minerals.

Under new state law effective January 1, 2016, the use of vacuum or suction dredge equipment is defined to mean the use of a mechanized or motorized system for removing or assisting in the removal of, or the processing of, material from the bed, bank, or channel of a river, stream, or lake in order to recover minerals.

As stated we dredged in order to recover mercury

I would say that probably most of the mercury was "pregnant". Good on you.

 

[Goldwasher]

lol natural occuring elements are also defined as minerals.. Due to lack of crystal structure mercury and opal are known as "mineraloids"

cool story

So, you were still breaking the law

 

[Goldwasher]

and don't come back with
' it wasn't naturally occuring"

it's in the waterway your dredging..it's mercury ..it's a mineral

pretty sure it's against tnet rules to encourage an act as legal when by definition it is not...

 

[Goldwasher]

Minerals by Name (complete list)

scroll on down........

 

[chlsbrns]

lol natural occuring elements are also defined as minerals.. Due to lack of crystal structure mercury and opal are known as "mineraloids"

cool story

So, you were still breaking the law

and don't come back with
' it wasn't naturally occuring"

it's in the waterway your dredging..it's mercury ..it's a mineral

pretty sure it's against tnet rules to encourage an act as legal when by definition it is not...

Mercury is a mineraloid not a mineral. A mineraloid is not a mineral.

A mineraloid is a naturally occurring, inorganic solid that does not exhibit crystallinity. It may have the outward appearance of a mineral, but it does not have the “ordered atomic structure” required to meet the definition of a mineral. Some mineraloids also lack the “definite chemical composition” required to be a mineral.

To be considered a mineral, a material must meet the following five requirements:

1) naturally occurring
2) inorganic
3) solid
4) ordered atomic structure
5) definite chemical composition

https://geology.com/minerals/mineraloids/

 

[Goldwasher]

the part of the wortd "oid" literally means "form of"

mineraloid means "form of mineral"

it does in fact form crystals in its solid form!

Mercury is classified as a "metallic mineral"

Metallic Minerals List

It is the only liquid metal at room temperature

it is known as a secondary "mineral"

Pretty much every reputable mineral guide lists it as a mineral even though it is a "mineraloid"

It falls under the same laws as other metallic minerals in regards to mining law.

In the Dana classifacation system it is actually in the same catagory as gold

As far as dredging goes it falls under the same laws. You can file a claim to mine it. Considering that can only be done for "valuable minerals"

For all intents and purposes Mercury is a mineral

It is a mineral and you can not legally dredge for it in California

 

[Goldwasher]

USGS lists it as a "mineral commodity" by name

 

[Goldwasher]

"grandfathered in "

https://www.mindat.org/min-2647.html

 

[chlsbrns]

the part of the wortd "oid" literally means "form of"

mineraloid means "form of mineral"

it does in fact form crystals in its solid form!

Mercury is classified as a "metallic mineral"

Metallic Minerals List

It is the only liquid metal at room temperature

it is known as a secondary "mineral"

Pretty much every reputable mineral guide lists it as a mineral even though it is a "mineraloid"

It falls under the same laws as other metallic minerals in regards to mining law.

In the Danaclassifacation system it is actually in the same catagory as gold

As far as dredging goes it falls under the same laws. You can file a claim to mine it. Considering that can only be done for "valuable minerals"

For all intents and purposes Mercury is a mineral

It is a mineral and you can not legally dredge for it in California

" Since Mercury is a liquid, it lacks a crystal structure and technically is not really a mineral but a mineraloid. However, most reputable mineral guides, including the acclaimed Dana's System of Mineralogy, categorize Mercury together with the "true" minerals"

Mercury: The mineral native Mercury information and pictures