California Gold Coins - Real?

[pointdlr]

These coins all came off a very old charm bracelet from a prominent old Cincinnati family. In the first picture, I included all the coins on the bracelet, b/c the top row are all 100% authentic US issued gold coins. Here is a breakdown of the coins in the first picture:
Top Row Left to Right:
1) 1853 $1 US Gold
2) 1929 $2.5 US Gold
3) 1854 $1 US Gold
4) 1849 $1 US Gold.
It is the bottom row that I only have a hunch on. I do know they are all represented to be California Fractional Gold pieces. From a little research, I found out that these were reproduced by jewelers. I am hoping to find someone who is an expert on these types of coins that may be able to identify them as the real ones or the jeweler copies. I will say that they "feel" like real gold, but I just don't know for sure.
Here is a list for Row 2 Left to Right:
1) 1856 "Half Dol. California Gold"
2) 1870 "Half Dollar"
3) 1872 or 3 "1/4 Dolllar Cal."
4) 1858 "California Gold"
5) 1870 "1 Dollar California Gold"
Thanks in Advance for your help,
Jon Dickinson

 

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[steelheadwill]

From the replies i'd say it's time for a trip to get these authenticated.
that date smudge points in a good direction.
I'll be watching to see the outcome!

 

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[kuger]

Some of them look right and some dont,I think you might have a mixed bagThat would have been a heavy bracelet!!!

 

[thrillathahunt]

This would not be a very heavy bracelet at all, even if all the coins were genuine. The Quarter Eagle is 4.18 grams...the $1 gold coins are 1.6 grams...and the fractionals were most likely less than a gram.

Keep in mind also that people were "tougher" back in them thar days.

 

[kuger]

This would not be a very heavy bracelet at all, even if all the coins were genuine. The Quarter Eagle is 4.18 grams...the $1 gold coins are 1.6 grams...and the fractionals were most likely less than a gram.

Good point,for whatever reason I thought there were some larger denominations on there......my bad!

 

[mts]

Aren't you just interested for the melt value? If so, it's actually pretty easy to figure them out, and even if not just for melt you don't have to do much damage. Put a small nic in the side of the coin deep enough to get through any possible plating. If it's white metal... well you know it's a plated fake. If it's yellow metal, you weigh it because brass it will weigh less than gold. Throw em on the scale to start and go from there. A weight that is good, and seeing yellow from the scratch test... well that could equal paydirt.

Even with the addition of the loop I would bet a brass fake would still be underweight. If you have ever had a gold coin in your hand you should have been able to feel the weight compared to a copper.

Agreed. A simple weight test will tell you quite a bit. If they aren't pretty much right on the number by weight then they are fake. After a positive weight test I would consider taking the most common/worthless one and cutting it in half or scratching it pretty good. They are already holed. Putting a deep scratch on it won't hurt the value much. I'd want to know for sure. But that's just me.

 

[pointdlr]

The coins are real. I found my answer with a California Fractional Gold expert. He quickly identified them as real. The US gold coins were never in doubt. The only one that isn't real, is the 1858 Octagonal California Gold. That one he called a period token, but said it is made from gold.
As to the California pieces being worth scrap only, this doesn't seem to be the case at all. The varieties are listed above, but here is a breakdown of surviving example and rarity estimates from PCGS Coin Facts.
1) BG1202 - 1870 $1 - 25 total estimated surviving coins. 9.0 rarity.
2) BG310 - 1856 $1/2 - 18 total estimated surviving coins. 9.2 rarity.
3) BG921 - 1870 $1/2 - 70 total estimated surviving coins. 8.3 rarity.
4) BG869 - 187x $1/4 - 180 total estimated surviving coins. 7.2 rarity.
Even with the holes, I was offered a decent little sum from the expert. I am thinking I will sell a few of them, and get the extremely rare ones slabbed and stick them in a drawer.
I always appreciate this sites input on all types of questions, but I seriously have to wonder why anyone would ever advise someone to deeply scratch a coin they admittedly know nothing about. I get that they are holed, but I also can't think of any scenario where further damaging a coin is the right policy when there are so many other methods of discovery available.
Regards,
Jon Dickinson.

 

[kuger]

I thought the same thing!!"Surely a deep scratch wouldnt hurt anything",HUH!!?

 

[mts]

The coins are real. I found my answer with a California Fractional Gold expert. He quickly identified them as real. The US gold coins were never in doubt. The only one that isn't real, is the 1858 Octagonal California Gold. That one he called a period token, but said it is made from gold.
As to the California pieces being worth scrap only, this doesn't seem to be the case at all. The varieties are listed above, but here is a breakdown of surviving example and rarity estimates from PCGS Coin Facts.
1) BG1202 - 1870 $1 - 25 total estimated surviving coins. 9.0 rarity.
2) BG310 - 1856 $1/2 - 18 total estimated surviving coins. 9.2 rarity.
3) BG921 - 1870 $1/2 - 70 total estimated surviving coins. 8.3 rarity.
4) BG869 - 187x $1/4 - 180 total estimated surviving coins. 7.2 rarity.
Even with the holes, I was offered a decent little sum from the expert. I am thinking I will sell a few of them, and get the extremely rare ones slabbed and stick them in a drawer.
I always appreciate this sites input on all types of questions, but I seriously have to wonder why anyone would ever advise someone to deeply scratch a coin they admittedly know nothing about. I get that they are holed, but I also can't think of any scenario where further damaging a coin is the right policy when there are so many other methods of discovery available.
Regards,
Jon Dickinson.

My advice is worth exactly what you paid for it... I'm glad that your coins turned out to be real. But there are many fakes out there and being sure is very important as far as I'm concerned. Your previous posts made it seem like you didn't want to take the professional route and were hoping for validation from the crowd. Other than telling you to go to a professional, there isn't much other advice that we can give other than "weigh it", "scratch it", or "get a test kit". So I'm sorry if you are disappointed in the advice given. Congrats.

 

[stefen]

The coins are real. I found my answer with a California Fractional Gold expert. He quickly identified them as real. The US gold coins were never in doubt. The only one that isn't real, is the 1858 Octagonal California Gold. That one he called a period token, but said it is made from gold.
As to the California pieces being worth scrap only, this doesn't seem to be the case at all. The varieties are listed above, but here is a breakdown of surviving example and rarity estimates from PCGS Coin Facts.
1) BG1202 - 1870 $1 - 25 total estimated surviving coins. 9.0 rarity.
2) BG310 - 1856 $1/2 - 18 total estimated surviving coins. 9.2 rarity.
3) BG921 - 1870 $1/2 - 70 total estimated surviving coins. 8.3 rarity.
4) BG869 - 187x $1/4 - 180 total estimated surviving coins. 7.2 rarity.
Even with the holes, I was offered a decent little sum from the expert. I am thinking I will sell a few of them, and get the extremely rare ones slabbed and stick them in a drawer.
I always appreciate this sites input on all types of questions, but I seriously have to wonder why anyone would ever advise someone to deeply scratch a coin they admittedly know nothing about. I get that they are holed, but I also can't think of any scenario where further damaging a coin is the right policy when there are so many other methods of discovery available.Regards,
Jon Dickinson.

As you are finding, free advice offered on a forum needs to be filtered.

Retaining an expert, is obviously, an excellant step in determining this investment's true value.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I use an acid solution (Potassium Dichromate + Nitric Acid) that will not affect solid gold but will show color inside the holes where its worn or where the plating is thin or scratched, even if not apparent to the naked eye. Even pure Nitric Acid will show green I think.


apply a drop of solution- watch for color reaction.
Brass--Dark Brown
Copper--Brown
Gold--None
Nickel--Blue
Lead--Yellow
Tin--Yellow
Silver(pure)--Bright Red
Silver .925--Dark Red
Silver .800--Brown
Silver .500--Green
Palladium--None
Aluminum--Yellow

 

[Iron Patch]

I always appreciate this sites input on all types of questions, but I seriously have to wonder why anyone would ever advise someone to deeply scratch a coin they admittedly know nothing about.

Here is why and I guess maybe you weren't paying close enough attention? All I said was based on this question.

"Aren't you just interested for the melt value?"

It's up to you to determine whether they are melt value and to take my advice. You certainly beat the odds with them being real because those things have come up many times, and I don't recall a single one that was legit.

 

[pointdlr]

MTS- I'm not at all disappointed in the advice. In fact, it was Don from SJ that put me in contact with someone who knows the types. I enjoy all types of questions and answers, just pointing out my belief that it is not good advice to scratch something before you know what it is.
Iron- I read your post. Sorry for thinking your statement about only being interested in melt value was more than a little facetious. I don't care to argue with you about the coins. I put them up when I didn't know, and now I do. Treasurenet wins again. Send me a PM with your email, and I can send you all the info from the guys that know the types.
How do I put up that darn check mark?
Regards,
Jon Dickinson.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

How do I put up that darn check mark?
Regards,
Jon Dickinson.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,259097.0.html

 

[Iron Patch]

MTS- I'm not at all disappointed in the advice. In fact, it was Don from SJ that put me in contact with someone who knows the types. I enjoy all types of questions and answers, just pointing out my belief that it is not good advice to scratch something before you know what it is.
Iron- I read your post. Sorry for thinking your statement about only being interested in melt value was more than a little facetious. I don't care to argue with you about the coins. I put them up when I didn't know, and now I do. Treasurenet wins again. Send me a PM with your email, and I can send you all the info from the guys that know the types.
How do I put up that darn check mark?
Regards,
Jon Dickinson.

I believe you.

The only point I'm making is that most damaged gold coins are not worth more than their weight in gold, and if you had planned to sell them for that, you can't hurt them. As for whether they are real or not I did not spend anymore time than just wondering about the grey metal.

 

[cw0909]

I use an acid solution (Potassium Dichromate + Nitric Acid) that will not affect solid gold but will show color inside the holes where its worn or where the plating is thin or scratched, even if not apparent to the naked eye. Even pure Nitric Acid will show green I think.


apply a drop of solution- watch for color reaction.
Brass--Dark Brown
Copper--Brown
Gold--None
Nickel--Blue
Lead--Yellow
Tin--Yellow
Silver(pure)--Bright Red
Silver .925--Dark Red
Silver .800--Brown
Silver .500--Green
Palladium--None
Aluminum--Yellow

I use an acid solution (Potassium Dichromate + Nitric Acid)
nice ty, what would be the ratio of the mix

 

[cw0909]

pointdlr do you have a pic of the chain and clasp for the charm bracelet
does it have a makers mark, and the hook rings what metal were they
made of

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I use an acid solution (Potassium Dichromate + Nitric Acid) that will not affect solid gold but will show color inside the holes where its worn or where the plating is thin or scratched, even if not apparent to the naked eye. Even pure Nitric Acid will show green I think.


apply a drop of solution- watch for color reaction.
Brass--Dark Brown
Copper--Brown
Gold--None
Nickel--Blue
Lead--Yellow
Tin--Yellow
Silver(pure)--Bright Red
Silver .925--Dark Red
Silver .800--Brown
Silver .500--Green
Palladium--None
Aluminum--Yellow

I use an acid solution (Potassium Dichromate + Nitric Acid)
nice ty, what would be the ratio of the mix

Its been a long time since I mixed up a batch but as far as I recall use just a pinch of Potassium Dichromate. I have a container pre mixed and only use a drop at a time for testing metals. Be very careful with the Nitric Acid. Here is an old post. http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,24080.0.html

another http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,308896.0.html

Im sure there are professional test solutions you can buy to test gold. This solution will not determine karat purity. Pawn shops use them. Kellyco sells a gold test kit. But I use this mix told to me by an old timer mostly to test silver.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I did a bit of searching and found this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potassium_dichromate
Silver testing
When dissolved in an approximately 35% nitric acid solution it is called Schwerter's solution and is used to test for the presence of various metals, notably for determination of silver purity. Pure silver will turn the solution bright red, sterling silver will turn it dark red, low grade coin silver (0.800 fine) will turn brown (largely due to the presence of copper which turns the solution brown) and even green for 0.500 silver


This is better Mix 10 grams potassium dichromate salts with the ¾ oz. nitric acid plus ¼ oz. distilled water.
http://www.shorinternational.com/TestGoldMakeSolution.php

I copy and paste the entire page to keep as reference.

How to Make & Use Gold Test Solutions

Potassium dichromate salts and nitric and hydrochloric acids are needed to mix test solutions. Use a graduate measure for mixing required proportions. In larger cities the potassium dichromate salts and acids are available from chemical supply houses and in smaller cities from local drug stores.

SOLUTIONS: Mark bottles 1, 2, 3 - DO NOT INTERCHANGE TOPS

(Bottle 1) BELOW 14K AND BASE METAL

Mix 10 grams potassium dichromate salts with the ¾ oz. nitric acid plus ¼ oz. distilled water.

(Bottle 2) 14K-18K

Mix one part hydrochloric acid to 50 parts nitric acid and 12 parts distilled water.

(Bottle 3) ABOVE 18K

Aqua regia - Mix one part nitric acid to 3 parts hydrochloric acid.

TO TEST

File a notch in test piece, apply a drop of solution #1 - watch for color reaction.

BRASS--Dark brown

COPPER--Brown

GOLD--None

NICKEL--Blue

LEAD--Yellow

TIN--Yellow

SILVER (PURE)--Bright red SILVER (.925)--Dark red

SILVER (.800)--Brown SILVER (.500)--Green

PALLADIUM--None

TO DETERMINE KARAT

File a spot on a test piece and rub it on a test stone to leave a definite mark. Choose a test needle nearest to the test mark color and rub the needle on the stone next to the mark. If the needle mark reacts sooner than that of the test piece mark, the piece is of higher karat than the needle used. Trial and error will bring you close to the correct karat. Use bottle 3 for most testing.

TESTING FOR PRECIOUS METALS

SILVER: Pure silver is almost perfectly white, very ductile and malleable. Pure silver is too soft for general use. It is combined with copper to harden it. Sterling silver is 92½% silver and 7½% copper. Mexican silver is generally less than 90% pure silver. To test for silver: file a notch in the piece to be tested and apply a drop of #I solution. Sterling silver turns cloudy cream. In plated ware, the base metal will turn green.

GOLD: Pure gold is very soft and is combined with other metals to harden it. 24 karat is pure gold, thus 14 karat is by weight 14/24 fine gold and the balance an alloy metal. To test for gold: the gold testing items shown above are required. File a notch in the piece to be tested. Apply a drop of #1 solution. A bright green reaction indicates gold plate on copper or brass. A pinkish cream color indicates gold plate on silver. Ten karat gold will show a slight reaction; over ten karats, little or none.

PLATINUM-PALLADIUM: Use bottle #3. If platinum, there will be no change. If palladium, it will turn red after application of Aqua Regia #3. If the reaction to any test is too rapid, dilute with distilled water.

CAUTION: - AVOID BREATHING FUMES AND DIRECT CONTACT WITH SKIN. KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN.

 

[terryo]

yeah, scratching's not the way to go, i once found a Bumble bee pendant, literally next to the bubble gum machines in a supermarket.It had emerald eyes, quite tacky to be honest...I clipped one of the wings off, and sure enough, it was real gold ! I had to sell it for scrap, then....

 

[steelheadwill]

Congratulations!
I just got back on to see that they've been authenticated.
I'm not an expert on these by any means, but I had a gut feeling the were good.
Best wishes!