Button

[jernigan00]

I found this button 2 days ago near a cellar hole. I can't help but think i've seen one of these before.

Can anyone help?



Front: deer head with a musket/rifle intertwined with the antlers, a bugle "horn", and a large pot looking thing in the bottom right area.

Back: Too rusty to make out anything. The eye is still attached.

I'm fascinated with the detail of the images, especially the dear head.

I found it near Oswego, NY in a long gone community of farmers dating back to the mid 1800's

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

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[jernigan00]

Thanks again Soda

I'll be hitting that site again hopefully a blanket of snow falls. I know there's more good stuff at this site.

Buttons are almost as fun to find as coins.

Thanks all

J

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Button, button ... who's got the button?
I realize this isn't an exact match, but it may put us on track to something more substantial. Note: The seller got a little tounge-twisted on the description part, but all the pertinant info is there.


http://cgi.ebay.com/1-1800S-BRASS-B...286.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo=LVI&itu=UCI&otn=3&ps=6

P.S. Although I have never seen it requested before, I suspect there are those among us who are unfamiliar with how to post a link to another web page. And since I have nothing better to do at the moment, I thought I would share with those who have never done it, just how easy it is to post a link. Bare with me, it's a little complicated at first, but with a little practice you'll have it down pat in no time.

First: Go to the web page you want to link to.
2nd. Move your cursor arrow to the very top of the screen where all the htp.//.www kind of stuff is.
3rd. LEFT click your mouse until the address is highlighted in blue.
4th. Keep your cursor there for a moment.
5th. Now RIGHT click, and when you see the box pop up, go to "COPY" and then LEFT click it.
6th. Now come back to TreasureNet and open a reply to this topic.
7th. Important note: Dont't touch your Right click button until you're ready to "PASTE".
8th. Place your Left click cursor to where you want to start typing, and then RIGHT click on your mouse, and when you see the "PASTE" option pop up, LEFT click on it and the link should automatically appear.

Final note: As long as you don't change it, the link will remain on your RIGHT click button until you replace it with something else.

It's really not as complicated as it seems! Try it, I bet you'll like it !

Very neat button jernigan. Thanks for the copy and paste lesson Bob, for those that may not know. As others have stated it is not a Livery button and it also has no connections to Daniel Boone. I doubt its German either. Yes, I think it is a canoe and there also a powder horn depicted.

Thanks Soda

No doubt I'm not completely satisfied with what weve settled for on this button 'cause I know there's got to be more to it.

I'll keep up the search.

Its a beautiful civilian hunting button made by Waterbury. I think now it deserves the green check. http://www.waterburybutton.com/cart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=0&idproduct=17303

 

[CRUSADER]

Button, button ... who's got the button?
I realize this isn't an exact match, but it may put us on track to something more substantial. Note: The seller got a little tounge-twisted on the description part, but all the pertinant info is there.


http://cgi.ebay.com/1-1800S-BRASS-B...286.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo=LVI&itu=UCI&otn=3&ps=6

P.S. Although I have never seen it requested before, I suspect there are those among us who are unfamiliar with how to post a link to another web page. And since I have nothing better to do at the moment, I thought I would share with those who have never done it, just how easy it is to post a link. Bare with me, it's a little complicated at first, but with a little practice you'll have it down pat in no time.

First: Go to the web page you want to link to.
2nd. Move your cursor arrow to the very top of the screen where all the htp.//.www kind of stuff is.
3rd. LEFT click your mouse until the address is highlighted in blue.
4th. Keep your cursor there for a moment.
5th. Now RIGHT click, and when you see the box pop up, go to "COPY" and then LEFT click it.
6th. Now come back to TreasureNet and open a reply to this topic.
7th. Important note: Dont't touch your Right click button until you're ready to "PASTE".
8th. Place your Left click cursor to where you want to start typing, and then RIGHT click on your mouse, and when you see the "PASTE" option pop up, LEFT click on it and the link should automatically appear.

Final note: As long as you don't change it, the link will remain on your RIGHT click button until you replace it with something else.

It's really not as complicated as it seems! Try it, I bet you'll like it !

Very neat button jernigan. Thanks for the copy and paste lesson Bob, for those that may not know. As others have stated it is not a Livery button and it also has no connections to Daniel Boone. I doubt its German either. Yes, I think it is a canoe and there also a powder horn depicted.

Thanks Soda

No doubt I'm not completely satisfied with what weve settled for on this button 'cause I know there's got to be more to it.

I'll keep up the search.

Its a beautiful civilian hunting button made by Waterbury. I think now it deserves the green check. http://www.waterburybutton.com/cart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=0&idproduct=17303

Good work.

That must make me a button expert

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Good work.

That must make me a button expert

yes

 

[jernigan00]

thanks bigcyprus

Insightful and generous with your time in research as always.

I'm now satisfied with my what I've found.

Let me say this to those that may not know. When you do research on the internet for something you've found, let TNet be your first stop in your journey to seek the facts. Thousands of knowledgable, experienced and generous folks abound. I can't say enough for this community.

Proud to be a member.

Jernigan00

 

[CRUSADER]

thanks bigcyprus

Insightful and generous with your time in research as always.

I'm now satisfied with my what I've found.

Let me say this to those that may not know. When you do research on the internet for something you've found, let TNet be your first stop in your journey to seek the facts. Thousands of knowledgable, experienced and generous folks abound. I can't say enough for this community.

Proud to be a member.

Jernigan00

Your very right, I believe this to be the best IDing forum on the internet. My last response was tongue in cheek, I'm far, far, far from a button expert. I might find a lot, but I've learnt more on here than the limited books that the UK sell on these!

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

bigcypresshunter :

Congrats on the ID ...

The only remaining question I have (if it can be answered by anyone) is in regards to the column next to the button on the Waterbury website. Does the finish choices mean the button shown is a reproduction, and that it can be ordered in other finishes? I sent an Email to them with this same question, but have not heard back from them yet. Not that it isn't the same button, I was just a little confused about the button # 04931 part.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

bigcypresshunter :

Congrats on the ID ...

The only remaining question I have (if it can be answered by anyone) is in regards to the column next to the button on the Waterbury website. Does the finish choices mean the button shown is a reproduction, and that it can be ordered in other finishes? I sent an Email to them with this same question, but have not heard back from them yet. Not that it isn't the same button, I was just a little confused about the button # 04931 part.

Hello Bob. Good question. Waterbury has been making buttons since before the Civil War. Maybe since 1812. Do they make reproductions? The answer is yes they do, with different finishes. Yes, they appear to make reproductions of their own buttons. Does the finish mean reproduction? Not necessarily. I would imagine they can be dated by the backmarks. In this case, the back has rusted away and we can only guess the age. Maybe someone else can help with that. I would imagine this is an original.

If they respond, I will be looking forward to hearing what they have to say.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I just noticed that Waterbury also makes reproduction Revolutionary War buttons. I guess that they also make reproductions of other companies. The ID then would be with the backmark, button type and post type IMO. http://www.waterburybutton.com/cart/pc/viewContent.asp?idpage=5

I also noticed Waterbury has this button listed under Career Uniform/ Sports. Maybe professional shooters blazer? I thought it would be under Fashion. Possibly for a hunting club. What we know is its NOT military.


http://www.waterburybutton.com/cart/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=38

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

bigcypresshunter:

On your last link above (bottom one), did you notice the same/similar? button in the next row clear to the right? (Button # 09401). It's even offered in different "ligne"? sizes.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I looked up "Ligne" in the dictionary, and found the following;

Ligne; (French), verb ... resemble, look like.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

bigcypresshunter:

On your last link above (bottom one), did you notice the same/similar? button in the next row clear to the right? (Button # 09401). It's even offered in different "ligne"? sizes.

No, I didnt notice. I put them side by side and it appears to be the same button with a slightly different rim. They are offered in different sizes in different finishes. Whats your point?
http://www.waterburybutton.com/cart/pc/viewContent.asp?idpage=6

Ligne Sizes Defined

20 Ligne = 1/2" dia. = 12.700 MM

25 Ligne = 5/8" dia. = 15.875 MM

30 Ligne = 3/4" dia. = 19.050 MM

35 Ligne = 7/8" dia. = 22.225 MM

40 Ligne = 1" dia. = 25.400 MM

45 Ligne = 1-1/8" dia. = 28.58 MM

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I guess what I'm trying to say can best be summed up with the following;

1. jernigan00 found a button in an old cellar.

2. Being as it is made of some corrosive material, with no identifying back-marks, it may not even be that old. If the Waterbury buttons are still being made as it seems, the button could have been lost by some hunter back in the 1970's or later and still have had time to rust.

3. It may not even be a Waterbury. Indications are they reproduce other companies buttons.

4. We all agree it is a Deer Head with Powder Horn - Rifle - Canoe.

5. But that's really about all we know about it.

6. Bottom Line ... We haven't made a "positive" identification, and possibly never will!

7. I'm not trying to open a can of worms here, and apologize if I'm coming across as sounding arrogant.

8. My point is ... No "for sure" green check mark yet!

9. It might be late 1800's - early 1900's - 1940's through the 80's ...

10. At this point I think jernigan00 is just happy with the fact that you found the link with the picture in the first place, and my respect and kudos go out to you as well.

11. But until jernigan00 or someone else can perform a closer examination of the actual button itself, for me it is still somewhat of a mystery !!!

Please don't hold it against me for pleading my case ... but from time to time I have to remind myself that the title of this catagory is "What Is It?" and not what it isn't!

Respectfully, to all concerned ... and remember - "it's just a button.

Sincerely,

Bob Brown

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thanks for stating your point because I was wondering where you were headed, and your questions and/or opinion is always welcome. The button has been IDed as a Fashion/Career Uniform/Sports/Hunting blazer button. That means it is civilian and not military or from a school or university and not a Livery button. The same design is made by Waterbury today but since this is a steel backed button thats rusted, we cannot date it other than when this type button was popular.. But that it IS a civilian blazer button is a positive identification.


Maybe Waterbury can answer any questions as to when this design first surfaced or if it was ever made by another company.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I agree 100 % ... and thanks for not taking it personal - that was not my intent!

This final link may help to shed some light on what I've been stumbling around with.

http://www.waterburybutton.com/cart/pc/viewContent.asp?idpage=4

Thanks again,

Bob

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

"Every soldier’s and sailor’s dress uniform in the U.S. military shines with buttons made by The Waterbury Button Company. Since our founding in 1812 as war broke out between the United States and England, we have produced brass buttons for the U.S. armed forces in peacetime as well as for every conflict, - the Civil War (when both Union and Confederate soldiers wore Waterbury Buttons), Spanish-American War, World War I, World War II, the Korean War, Vietnam War and Operation Desert Storm.

The Waterbury Button Company is the only metal button manufacturer that can claim to have supplied the U.S. military for nearly 200 years. Because of their recognizable quality, Waterbury Buttons can also be found on military uniforms around the world." http://www.waterburybutton.com/cart/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=4


I copied and pasted this from the Waterbury site. I would imagine the originals can be dated by their backmarks. I suppose its possible that Waterbury copied this button from another company. Its more likely that some other company copied Waterbury and produced a cheaper steel backed blazer button. Waterbury has been producing buttons for a long time. What is certain is that no military, US or foreign is using this design. Writing to Waterbury may clear up some of these questions.

Im aware that their buttons can now be ordered in different finishes. Maybe a new button can look old and an old button can look new but you cant fake patina very well and the backmarks will tell the age.

Modern Waterbury reproduction buttons should have 4 W's.

6- WATERBURY BUTTON CO. * 1849-1965
7- WATERBURY BUTTON CO. *CONN.* pre 1965
8- WATERBURY COS INC CONN post 1965
9- W W W W (waterbury) modern
10- W.B. CO

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Agreed ...

I already have one into them now, but it was sent late yesterday and they may not respond until after the weekend. My main question(s) to them were if all their buttons were reproductions, and/or if they sold any originals, and if they had any specific information (original mfg. - date - etc.) on the deer head one in question?

I'll post it if/when I hear back from them.

Thanks again to all ... and "GO CHARGERS !!!" (My hometown team).

SODABUTTONBOB

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Here is a good link on how to date a button by its shank. http://www.daacs.org/aboutDatabase/pdf/cataloging/Buttons.pdf

In this case its very rusted. Is this a tinned iron back or steel?

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Please don't get me wrong when I say this (I think we're over all that) but I'm sure glad that your link had some pictures! Remember, (And I know I'm not the only member reading this), but speaking for myself, I'm about 3/4 hillbilly, and never imagined in a jillion years I'd be this involved, or this interested in buttons. But seeing as I am interested, I for one will read what you posted and get back to you in a couple of months. LOL

Thanks again,

SODA"JERK"BOB

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I for one will read what you posted and get back to you in a couple of months.