Button or old coin found in europe!!

[Teeenbean]

Take a look Ive posted once with not much of a responce however this and 2 other items were found metal detecting in Italy a month ago in a lost city. I was only lucky enough to search for 45 Min's and got 3 nice hits when everyone wanted 2 leave crazy huh?With best intentions to return 2 the site before leaving Italy got tied up searching an old castle and finding 8 old coppers JACKPOT all I could think was holy crap what a vacation best ever!Don't get me wrong been on some great hunts me and my girl friend have found large cents,old coppers, gold rings not 2 mention relics and more change then I can remember but this was our best yet.Anyway this button or coin was found outside the wall of a famous lost city and appears to be solid gold underneath the crust does have some lettering in the crown but hard 2 make out looks Italian not knowing is killing me so help out also have gold medal and some type musket shot from this site I'll post later this is a tuff ID good luck!

 

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[CRUSADER]

CRUSADER - did that gold coin you found from 10 AD come out of the ground ready to go?

I think it's a ole' blazer button lost by another visitor to the lost city that's not very lost like 40 - 50 years ago.

Yeap, they always do come out as good as they day they were made. Unless they were next to iron etc.

I don't think its a blazer button. I believe the uneven boarder of the reverse is consistant with an early button (1790s). But without handling it, you maybe right. (did the blazer type use crowns?)

 

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[romeo-1]

Chances are its from a kings blazer or Royalty for sure not likely its anyless than 150 years old your guess from 1790 was closer 40 50 years ago I dont think any kings were left anyway take the link 2 the city and you'll see it actually dates to 800 BC and might hold older treasure than my finds and might ease some of your scepticism.

That's a pretty big leap in hypothesizing that it is from a King's blazer...

 

[CRUSADER]

Chances are its from a kings blazer or Royalty for sure not likely its anyless than 150 years old your guess from 1790 was closer 40 50 years ago I dont think any kings were left anyway take the link 2 the city and you'll see it actually dates to 800 BC and might hold older treasure than my finds and might ease some of your scepticism.

That's a pretty big leap in hypothesizing that it is from a King's blazer...

Agreed, much more likely a Duke's servant.

 

[Montana Jim]

CRUSADER - did that gold coin you found from 10 AD come out of the ground ready to go?   

I think it's a ole' blazer button lost by another visitor to the lost city that's not very lost like 40 - 50 years ago.

Yeap, they always do come out as good as they day they were made. Unless they were next to iron etc.

I don't think its a blazer button.  I believe the uneven boarder of the reverse is consistant with an early button (1790s).  But without handling it, you maybe right. (did the blazer type use crowns?)

Blazer and Fashion buttons used every symbol of heraldry you can imagine... crowns, crests, lions, dogs, shields of every shape and size to include designs on the shields of every shape and size resembling crests from around the world, and, military-like designs.  Some designs have been made for over 100 years here in the US.

It's just a guess anyways... we'll see...

 

[jeff of pa]

actually ive testest it with an acid test it is gold as far as the date who knows but this was found at a lost city might not be as old but finding it there sure makes it sweet.

Found a 10K ring once that was black
Thought for sure it was fake
but after cleaning it good it shined.

May be a Low Karat gold or the ground.

Electrolysis will tell you for sure.

Congrats ! nice find

 

[Teeenbean]

That's all I was trying 2 say that older gold usually lower quality or alloy type doesn't always come out of the ground shiny(or good 2 go) Some require care or cleaning and thought maybe this was one of those instances.

 

[La Beep]

That's all I was trying 2 say that older gold usually lower quality or alloy type doesn't not always come out of the ground shiny(or good 2 go) Some require care or cleaning and thought maybe this was one of those instances.

It still a good find and it is a family crest. I seen it somewhere. Just got to get the old mind working. and i still go with my time period.

 

[Montana Jim]

Since we are on the topic, and I'm not saying either way - but the button pictured in my avatar is over 130 years old and was buried at about 2 inches. It's gold gilt and came out of the ground dirty, but otherwise exactly how it looks. She's my favorite button.

I still have not found the pattern on your button in either livery buttons OR fashion buttons...

Still looking when I get the chance. I will however bow to anything CRUSADER says as he's no doupt an expert, and has been the great at IDing the livery buttons here.

 

[BuckleBoy]

Well--obviously my knowledge from my experiences during the past decade and a half are not wanted on this thread since my original reply was deleted.  Please don't complain to the moderators when someone disagrees with you when they're trying to help with an ID of your find.


Go get the button tested if you think it's gold.



-Buck

 

[DIGGINGRAVES4CASH$$$$]

I think hes offended !!!!!

 

[Teeenbean]

I only deleted you for negative comments but didn't complain or report you and I do appreciate your help with out the neg comments.

 

[BuckleBoy]

I only deleted you for negative comments but didn't complain or report you and I do appreciate your help with out the neg comments.

What negative comments were those? I told you that I'd never dug a gold item that was that tarnished. In my experience, never. Is that negative--or is that simply something you didn't wish to hear about your find?

People post in the whatzit threads to get folks opinions on what an item is, what it's made of, and many other things. It is one thing if someone doubts that a find was dug in "Today's Finds"--another thing entirely when someone gets censored for giving an ID of a find that someone doesn't want to hear. I believe the button to be a livery button--and I do not think it is gold. Crusader has decades of experience in the matter--and regardless of whatever you think about my comments you should take his comments on your find Very Seriously.


Regards,


Buckleboy

 

[Teeenbean]

Thats not what you said and besides I dont mind honest imput and yours is appreciated but taunting me about gold never coming out of the ground dirty is just a tale when clearly on this site in The best of treasurenet look for sanfransico coins near the top and tell me all the gold on that page came outtta the ground clean its a perfect example of what old gold out of the ground can look like "dirty" and in need of a clean with that being said you guys are prob right about the button and I appreciate your help so take it easy and think about how your comments sound to others.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I only deleted you for negative comments but didn't complain or report you and I do appreciate your help with out the neg comments.

I didnt know we could delete someone elses post. Is this true? You were able to delete a post on your own without help of a moderator?

Just asking, what type of acid did you use? ...and what was the result (color)?

Oh. BTW Nice finds.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Yes it was great to have a chance 2 search a city that dates back 800 ad or more just sad I only was there for an hour at best with every intention of returning I ran outta time but in the short time I was there I was lucky enough 2 find the button,musket shot and medallion heres a pick of the medal its gonna be hard to put a date on it the city is so old it could be from any century care too guess? Just a hint of gold shows on overse where some of the crust flaked off it doesn't look like brass if you know what I mean might turn out 2 be the best of the litter!

Looks like a brass religious medal. It maybe hard to ID because they made millions of them. I will try.

 

[Teeenbean]

Ya at first though it was copper and now not soo sure could be brass heres a photo of where some of the metal is showing give you an idea.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Electrolysis is not the best way to clean copper or brass. Try searching in the conservative cleaning section. I think we have one. I dont know the best way. Olive oil maybe, peroxide? Maybe just soap and distilled water? Be careful cleaning.

ADDED: Here it is "Cleaning and Preservation". http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/board,70.0.html

 

[BuckleBoy]

Electrolysis is not the best way to clean copper or brass. Try searching in the conservative cleaning section. I think we have one. I dont know the best way. Olive oil maybe, peroxide? Maybe just soap and distilled water? Be careful cleaning.

ADDED:  Here it is "Cleaning and Preservation". http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/board,70.0.html

If and only if it is gold, then Aluminum Jelly is what you need to use.  See my post on "Cleaning Buttons" in the Cleaning and Preservation threads.  Peroxide method is best for copper.  For brass, I advocate toothpicking the crud off.


-Buckles

 

[Teeenbean]

Ya thanks for the tips I know nothing about cleaning brass or gold and its good 2 get some solid advice.Also in last pic posted does that look like nugget 2 you or am I dreamin.

 

[CRUSADER]

Wow, this has grown since I last read.

In my opinion it would be highly unlikely to be a low grade gold mix (not impossible just unlikely). In those days if you were going to use a precious metal on a button it would have had a greater effect as a coating (gilt). Look far more impressive using the minimum amount of gold. It would shine well without dulling it down with other metals making it look cheap.

Anyway, all this cleaning advice (I think) is leading you down the garden path. IT LOOKS FINE. You may distroy a good patination on an aged button.

Focus on the sheild & finding a family. This will increase the value far greater than if it were solid gold. Very few Livery Buttons are every provenanced to a family. If you can get researchers on side to do this then you have a facinating historic family story.

When ever posting in the what-is-it section you will recieve plenty of opinions (most based on experience, you would hope). I have got it wrong plenty of times, but getting it wrong never bothers me. I still learn. Therefore bear in mind it could be a modern blazer button (I don't think so, but....)