Button Id Please

[sscindercoop]

Found this button at a local park it was buried about 6 inches down. On the back I think it says. W. H. Horstmann & Sons. PHI. Any help on Id would be great. Thanks.

 

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[PBK]

Nice find!

Looks like a mid to late 1800's U.S. Army general staff button

 

[traderoftreasures]

that's in pretty good shape

 

[sscindercoop]

It was in better shape it was in one piece and had some gold on it. I used electrolysis and it came apart. Then when i seen the eagle i used a pencil eraser. I wish I had Known what it was before i used electrolysis.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

http://pw1.netcom.com/~jimyce/bm.html

 

[BuckleBoy]

Great find!

In some cases, even using water to clean a two piece button may be a mistake (I consider any button which has a push, dent, or is compromised in some way by the plow or ground action "risky" to clean with water. I've had several fall apart on me--and they were all damaged by their time underground.) Electrolysis is pretty harsh too. The only items I use that on are my iron relics.

Here's a link for you. I made this post a while back to help folks with button cleaning and preservation.

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,165857.0.html

There are also many photos of buttons, including before/after photos of a general staff officer's button like yours on down in the replies. (Reply #6)


Best Wishes,



Buckleboy

 

[sscindercoop]

I thought my button dated between 1843-1863 because in the link I found the same link bigcypresshunter posted it gives the dates of manufacture based on what the button says on the back. The only years I seen sons on the back was 1843-1863. Mine says sons and then PHI it does not show the PHI on that sight. Also the buttons they made with the Philadelphia mark say PHILA or just Philadelphia. Ive been looking at general service buttons and I haven't found one with the same shape sheild as mine, I know their were different manufactures but I still cant find the same one as mine. Thanks guys for all your help I dont know much about buttons so all help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I thought my button dated between 1843-1863 because in the link I found the same link bigcypresshunter posted it gives the dates of manufacture based on what the button says on the back. The only years I seen sons on the back was 1843-1863. Mine says sons and then PHI it does not show the PHI on that sight. Also the buttons they made with the Philadelphia mark say PHILA or just Philadelphia. Ive been looking at general service buttons and I haven't found one with the same shape sheild as mine, I know their were different manufactures but I still cant find the same one as mine. Thanks guys for all your help I dont know much about buttons so all help is greatly appreciated.

Yes I posted that link but your backmark is not listed. It is always better to look to the books. Maybe someone will post a reference.

 

[BuckleBoy]

Are you certain that it is "PHI" instead of "PHIL" or "PHILA." I'm banking that it is actually "PHILA" since Horstmann & Sons seems like it is early 1840s through early 1860s.

I don't have my copy of Tice with me since I am out of town, but could you check the backmark one more time?


Best Wishes,


Buckleboy

 

[PBK]

Tice's Dating Buttons illustrates two "• W. H. HORSTMANN & SONS • PHI" rmdc backmarks.
One is attributed as c. 1850; the other, c. 1843-60.

 

[sscindercoop]

It definitely says phi. Is this a Common one? Does it have any value? I would never sell I just am curious. Can someone post a pic? Thanks pbk for clearing that up for me. Also thanks everyone for your help.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Sscindercoop, it says here: "This button mark is what is called a rmdc (raised mark in a depressed channel) type. This style of marking was rarely used after the Civil War and can generally be accepted as an indication that the button is Civil War period or earlier." http://howardlanham.tripod.com/link80.htm

I dont know the value.

 

[sscindercoop]

Wow thats it exactly thanks.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

that's in pretty good shape

lol