Button id needed

[oldsmith]

Hello all, I found these 2 buttons complete with backs in 1 hole that I detected in northern Alberta Canada. Almost seems that someone just took them off dropped them and moved on. The area is rich in fur trade, gold rush trail, and other westward migrants in the late 1800s and early 1900s. Any help would be much appreciated and hh.

 

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[duggap]

I think those are snaps that came off a fairly modern jacket.

 

[sutphin]

Are they gutta percha buttons,vanzutphen

 

[oldsmith]

Thanks for the replies. From what I can read it says pat 78 RE 9.1 1886 and a backwards R backing onto a G. I think they are brass with maybe a little gold gilding showing on the inside. Here's a couple more pictures, it's the best I could do with my camera.

 

[oldsmith]

Hi, all, still looking for a little help on these buttons ( maybe 2 piece cuff or shirt buttons ) if you zoom in you will see better details ( sorry the pics are the best I can do ). They are almost sinister in nature , I thought maybe a 2 headed eagle, but some sort of a human, bird, effigy with a crest seems more likely. I doubt they are modern but will accept that if I'm wrong. Any help would be much appreciated and thanks for looking.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Hi, all, still looking for a little help on these buttons ( maybe 2 piece cuff or shirt buttons ) if you zoom in you will see better details ( sorry the pics are the best I can do ). They are almost sinister in nature , I thought maybe a 2 headed eagle, but some sort of a human, bird, effigy with a crest seems more likely. I doubt they are modern but will accept that if I'm wrong. Any help would be much appreciated and thanks for looking.

At least 2 of the snaps say PAT for patent but I dont remember seeing these written this way. RE may possibly stand for a Patent Re-issue. My suggestion would be to search snap patents. I dont know if 78 or 1886 are dates because its usually preceded by a month and day. Have somebody search snap patents in 1878 or 1886 or 1878 Re-issued in 1886 to see if anything come up thats a match. I have seen that RG logo but cant place it. May be modern.


View attachment 1164497.

 

[oldsmith]

At least 2 of the snaps say PAT for patent but I dont remember seeing these written this way. RE may possibly stand for a Patent Re-issue. My suggestion would be to search snap patents. I dont know if 78 or 1886 are dates because its usually preceded by a month and day. Have somebody search snap patents in 1878 or 1896 or 1878 Re-issued in 1886 to see if anything come up thats a match. I have seen that RG logo but cant place it. May be moder

View attachment 1164497.

Thanks BCH, I Am researching J.R. Gaunt ltd, Birmingham England. It's the best that I could come up with. The backwards r backing up to the g was my starting point. If you could add anything more, it would be much appreciated. Thanks again and hh.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I noticed that I posted the same post twice so I deleted one. Now my attachment is missing. This "new" TN site continues to give me fits. I get frustrated here and eventually give up because it way too time consuming and frustrating to try and do anything.

Well anyway I did try and search old patents but I cant find it. Finding this patented snap would be the key to dating it.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I dont have the time or patience to fight with the advanced search on this site as its not user friendly. But its most likely that this snap has been posted on here before. If anybody can get the search to work, try key words snap, RG, PAT, 1886 etc.

I re-edited and at least I was able to get my attachment to come back up.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Now the attachment is gone again. I just wanted to add that the 2 headed eagle/shield thing is most likely just a generic fashion design. And now that I think about it, the stamp is modern lettering fonts (without serifs) so that would date it into the 20th century. Its possible to be making reference to an older patent snap, I suppose, even though a 1886 patent would have expired.

 

[oldsmith]

Now the attachment is gone again. I just wanted to add that the 2 headed eagle/shield thing is most likely just a generic fashion design. And now that I think about it, the stamp is modern lettering fonts (without serifs) so that would date it into the 20th century. Its possible to be making reference to an older patent snap, I suppose, even though a 1886 patent would have expired.

Thanks again BCH, I researched snap buttons and it appears that they were first patented in 1886 by a german inventor. I made notes but the buttons and notes are at my cabin which is now surrounded by a wildfire and I wasn't allowed back into the area. Damn, we need some rain up here.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I found this:

The earliest snap fasteners were of the bird-cage type -- a dome slit by longitudinal perforations and a rigid ring as a socket into which the dome was forced.

Because of the design, these snaps would later be called ball and socket fasteners.

The history of Snap fasteners


It does appear to be the early bird cage type but I doubt it could be 19th century because of the modern letter fonts without serifs..

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I keep losing my attachments. Oldsmith, we need a close up photo of the lettering. Now that I look again, it appears some of the numbers may be old style. Your photos seem to have good resolution but we need them cropped and the picture taken from directly above so we can read the lettering and determine the fonts. Also to get other members interested in solving this. It appears to be the old bird-cage type snap.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I keep losing my attachments. Oldsmith, we need a close up photo of the lettering. Now that I look again, it appears some of the numbers are old style. Your photos are fine but we need them cropped and the picture taken from directly above so we can read the lettering and determine the fonts. Also to get other members interested in solving this. It appears to be the old bird-cage type snap.

View attachment 1167198 View attachment 1167203

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Im seeing serifs now on the PAT so this may be an old snap.

View attachment 1167203

Serifs are in red

 

[oldsmith]

Im seeing serifs now on the PAT so this may be an old snap.

View attachment 1167203

Serifs are in red View attachment 1167204[/QUOTE Sorry about the drama in my last post but I was burned out here before. The evac was lifted and I will head to my cabin tomorrow night and photo the buttons again. Many thanks again BCH.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I cant believe they are still having the same problems here on this so-called improved site with attachments etc, very frustrating. Why doesnt somebody repair the glitches? I dont feel like posting them all over again.

Hope your cabin is ok.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Does anyone know why my attachments disappear and sometimes appear back again but others seem lost forever? They all were visible when I first posted them.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

You should be able to post images with one click and you should also be able to edit without losing attachments. Why cant this be fixed?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I reported this to the moderator and they are looking into the disappearing attachment problem