Big Red

[uniface]

Found in North Dakota or Ohio by Harlan Snyder (who lived in West Virginia but hunted on vacations in Ohio and North Dakota -- unfortunately not keeping track of where the stuff he found was from); gotten in a trade for some Early Archaic points from Steve Worden.

Material is red Hixton silicified sandstone (the red is pretty scarce). It's a uniface with retouching pretty much all the way around except for the striking platform at the base. The size (2.5 inches) and shape suggest Early Archaic but the extent of the conservation on it (making every edge count) is paleo.

Your call.

 

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[Sidevalve45]

Found in North Dakota or Ohio by Harlan Snyder (who lived in West Virginia but hunted on vacations in Ohio and North Dakota -- unfortunately not keeping track of where the stuff he found was from); gotten in a trade for some Early Archaic points from Steve Worden.

Material is red Hixton silicified sandstone (the red is pretty scarce). It's a uniface with retouching pretty much all the way around except for the striking platform at the base. The size (2.5 inches) and shape suggest Early Archaic but the extent of the conservation on it (making every edge count) is paleo.

Your call.

Hello,
I have a scrapper that is has a similar color and texture as yours. I attached a couple pictures for your review. The first one shows it in the frame with some other preforms and miscellaneous items. They are all made from Hixton silicified sandstone. How do I know? I live in Black River Falls, Wisconsin which is ten miles from the famous Silver Mound quarry site. Most of my finds are this material and only a few are red like this or orange in color. If your interested I'll post more of those other items.

Thanks for looking,
Sidevalve45

 

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[natchitoches]

hi
uniface has not been here in a long time.this is a old post from 2009.
that was pulled back up

 

[Tnmountains]

He is over on arrowheadology. I will shoot him a message. Or if Steve/SRV/Grim Reaper maybe he will..

 

[larson1951]

what ever happened to airborne80 and his doggy named charlie?

 

[Tnmountains]

what ever happened to airborne80 and his doggy named charlie?

Last I heard he had bought some land and built his dream place back in the woods. I am sure he has his perimeter secure. Miss seeing him and his adventures also.

 

[theonlinefisherman]

I have a channel I hunt all the time. Cut about thirty years ago directly into the mangroves of Tampa bay back 1 mile to a residential neighborhood built where mounds used to be. At the bottom layers are stone tools all unifaced. Nothing but what appears (with c14) based on 50 years collections and 30 getting things papered sometimes - Paleo.

12 inches and one cat5 storm mud in a six inch layer of that 12", and stuff gets very, very sophisticated. More and more as it gets closer until it degrades again near the top. And we find Spanish and French artifacts. More Spanish but some French too.

All science aside, those lower layers produce older stuff. For sure.

Sent from my iPad using TreasureNet

 

[Tnmountains]

But when those banks collapse you end never being able to put that paleo tag on it unless it is a known type. At least that is what happens in the Tennessee Valley, I need a back hoe : )

 

[Hippy]

That material is absolutely not Hixton. I dont have a clue what it might be, maybe Spanish Diggings, but I'm certain it's not Hixton.

Hippy

 

[11KBP]

That material is absolutely not Hixton. I dont have a clue what it might be, maybe Spanish Diggings, but I'm certain it's not Hixton.

Hippy

July 21, 2009
"I'm sure you could cite 300 examples of later tools that were curated to this extent. It's partly a matter of necessity (distance from re-supply)."
That's true I have seen many examples including exotic lithics in Late Prehistoric sites. I guess my first question is, are you sure this piece is Hixton? It appears to be more of a closer grained orthoquartzite, anyway in the picture it doesn't have the luster and texture of Hixton.

It's good to see another opinion Hippy.
Thanks for chiming in.

11KBP

 

[uniface]

I can't say whether it is a paleo or a later culture's uniface tool but in my opinion you cannot use the reasoning that "the extent of the conservation on it (making every edge count) is paleo."

A small point, but it turns out you can. Extensive edge-reworking like this is MOST atypical of Clovis, but common in Early Archaic. Study enough site reports,or take Doc. Gramly's word that (except for obvious recycling at a distance from lithic sources) Clovis tools were made to be used as made -- not as blanks to be modified into tools by edge retouching before use. Terminal Paleo & EA tools are a different story. Example : Tellico Reservoir site.

Just ran into this & figured it was worth updating. FWIW

 

[Tnmountains]

It is great to see you posting and sharing your knowledge Uniface!

 

[uniface]

That material is absolutely not Hixton.

Stone Artifacts Made of Hixton Sugar Quartz

 

[quito]

The material reminds of Battle Mountain Sandstone from Fall River County in South Dakota.

cant get the best pic in this light but this sample is much more red than the pic shows and it does resemble Hixton in appearance.

 

[dirstscratcher]

That thing is very similar in size and shape to the uniface hornestone scraper found in Sheriden Cave, however that one has all edges dressed as I recall. I don't have my files accessible, but you can google Sheriden cave and find plenty of references.

 

[Hippy]

Stone Artifacts Made of Hixton Sugar Quartz

I'm very aware of what hixton is, and is not. In fact, I've had nearly every piece of Hixton in that picture in my hand at one time or another. I'm also very fortunate to know the vast majority of major hixton collectors very personally. To that end, I have literally handled hundreds, if not thousands of pieces of the material. I just found a large white piece of it in the field today.

I don't care to debate whether your scraper is paleo or not. Without context, it's conjecture at best. Some local Oneota sites yield some of the finest and most ornate scrapers you can imagine in all sizes, along with graver spurs and the like.

Unless you can take a more convincing photo, there is no way that material is hixton.

Hippy

 

[uniface]

Your "big difference" photos depend on lighting. In bright light, the opalescent matrix is apparent.

Compare Big Red in normal light on page 1 with the red Hixton piece in the center of the LCL link photo.

2) It isn't my job to prove anything to you, or to anybody.

Happy New Year.

 

[uniface]

Sheradin Cave uniface Dirtscratcher referenced :

The most frustrating aspect of being obsessed with ancient American tools (as opposed to points) is that archaeologists are almost entirely averse to really dealing with them, leaving outsiders to fend for themselves. Really. Once Coe showed them that projectile points were consistent in form and could be used to track the passage of time, the "fill in he blanks" project was pretty quickly and easily shaped up. But with tools, a broader and deeper knowledge is required. Rather than suck it up and buckle down, the way Europeans did, US archaeologists mostly ignored them, making it difficult or impossible to say whether tool forms/technologies were cultural markers or not. Example : Scrapers are just scrapers. Everybody made them, during all periods, everywhere. So there's no point to concerning ourselves with them.

I wouldn't have written what I did back then today, but I left it up.

 

[uniface]

PS : I tried every angle I could come up with to coax Pete Bostrum to sell me a casting of that artifact to study. He couldn't/wouldn't do it because he was contractually bound to only allow "qualified professionals' access to them. Same story I ran into with the Meadowcroft castings. This is surprisingly common with significant, professionally excavated artifacts. If you're not one of the academic establishment insiders, you're locked out of the loop. It even extends to refusing to publish stuff found by the great unwashed unless a lot of hoops get jumped through that advantage them.

The whole racket got me so steamed one time that it spawned a song. It starts out with (to the tune of the Wabash Cannonball) :

Up in Indiana there's a bunch of stuff been found
By folks who walk around there with their eyes upon the ground
On river banks, construction sites and any place that's plowed
But archies do not publish these because they're not allowed.

At the ivory tower in the city on the hill
You'd think they'd be receptive there, but boy -- if looks could kill !
Their nostrils flare, their eyes get hard and every voice grows loud :
"We do not publish stuff like that. It's simply not allowed.

"Those things were found by vandals who loot "antiquities"
all you need to know is that they don't have PhDs
Better that the record should ignore their grubby finds
Than contraband from trailer trash contaminate our minds.

"The deck is stacked against you. It's a contest our side wins
(Oh -- by the way -- donating those absolves you of your sins !)
We cannot be too careful to preserve our purity --
We are the moral guardians of archaeology ! . . ."

 

[dirstscratcher]

PS : I tried every angle I could come up with to coax Pete Bostrum to sell me a casting of that artifact to study. He couldn't/wouldn't do it because he was contractually bound to only allow "qualified professionals' access to them. Same story I ran into with the Meadowcroft castings. This is surprisingly common with significant, professionally excavated artifacts. If you're not one of the academic establishment insiders, you're locked out of the loop. It even extends to refusing to publish stuff found by the great unwashed unless a lot of hoops get jumped through that advantage them.

I was lucky to be gifted an original casting of the point from Sheriden for being a volunteer, but I only have castings of the original castings of the scraper and first bone point.

 

[sandchip]

Going in another direction here, but this is what I always heard called "Big Red". I want to say one of the Tatums out of Florida found it, but that's been a long time ago.